Discussion:
gasoline for lawnmower
(too old to reply)
Doug
2009-11-11 23:17:12 UTC
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OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.

I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.

So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Bob F
2009-11-11 23:21:26 UTC
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Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The only think I've ever done was to run mine really dry at the end of the
season to make sure that there is no gas left to go bad. I usually include using
the choke or primer as it starts to die to keep it going as long as possible to
make sure it is as dry as possible.
aemeijers
2009-11-11 23:29:20 UTC
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Post by Bob F
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The only think I've ever done was to run mine really dry at the end of the
season to make sure that there is no gas left to go bad. I usually include using
the choke or primer as it starts to die to keep it going as long as possible to
make sure it is as dry as possible.
Rueful chuckle. Tried to put mine away for the winter, and found out my
fuel shutoff valve doesn't seem to shut anything off. It turns (at least
the exposed plastic tab sticking out of the plastic casting does), but
apparently whatever is supposed to block the fuel line is no longer
connected. Guess I'll have to drive it around in circles, grating more
leaves, till the tank runs dry.

--
aem sends...
Bob F
2009-11-11 23:43:28 UTC
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Post by aemeijers
Post by Bob F
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep
old gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I
need a gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I
don't recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this
stuff.
The only think I've ever done was to run mine really dry at the end
of the season to make sure that there is no gas left to go bad. I
usually include using the choke or primer as it starts to die to
keep it going as long as possible to make sure it is as dry as
possible.
Rueful chuckle. Tried to put mine away for the winter, and found out
my fuel shutoff valve doesn't seem to shut anything off. It turns (at
least the exposed plastic tab sticking out of the plastic casting
does), but apparently whatever is supposed to block the fuel line is
no longer connected. Guess I'll have to drive it around in circles,
grating more leaves, till the tank runs dry.
Or just leave it running while you do other tasks in the area.

I'm always careful about how much gas I put in for the last use.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 00:26:12 UTC
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Post by Bob F
Post by aemeijers
Post by Bob F
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep
old gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I
need a gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I
don't recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this
stuff.
The only think I've ever done was to run mine really dry at the end
of the season to make sure that there is no gas left to go bad. I
usually include using the choke or primer as it starts to die to
keep it going as long as possible to make sure it is as dry as
possible.
Rueful chuckle. Tried to put mine away for the winter, and found out
my fuel shutoff valve doesn't seem to shut anything off. It turns (at
least the exposed plastic tab sticking out of the plastic casting
does), but apparently whatever is supposed to block the fuel line is
no longer connected. Guess I'll have to drive it around in circles,
grating more leaves, till the tank runs dry.
Or just leave it running while you do other tasks in the area.
I'm always careful about how much gas I put in for the last use.
I always store mine with a FULL tank over the winter.
The snow blower is stored dry over the summer.
jeff_wisnia
2009-11-12 00:03:38 UTC
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Post by aemeijers
Post by Bob F
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The only think I've ever done was to run mine really dry at the end of
the season to make sure that there is no gas left to go bad. I usually
include using the choke or primer as it starts to die to keep it going
as long as possible to make sure it is as dry as possible.
Rueful chuckle. Tried to put mine away for the winter, and found out my
fuel shutoff valve doesn't seem to shut anything off. It turns (at least
the exposed plastic tab sticking out of the plastic casting does), but
apparently whatever is supposed to block the fuel line is no longer
connected. Guess I'll have to drive it around in circles, grating more
leaves, till the tank runs dry.
--
aem sends...
A spare turkey baster will let you suck most of the gas out of small
engine fuel tanks and squirt it into a gas can which you can then drain
into your car's tank - unless you need it for a snoblower.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.
Oren
2009-11-11 23:28:01 UTC
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Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
1) Maybe

2) Wrong use 87 octane in (my) small engines,

3) Huh?

14) Fix in another "ten years".
Andy
2009-11-11 23:37:00 UTC
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Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Andy comments:

You could just crank it up once a month and run it for 5
minutes......
Hustlin' Hank
2009-11-11 23:46:01 UTC
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� � � You could just crank it up once a month and run it for 5
minutes......
I have no less than 9 motors of both 2 and 4 stroke. Like you, I make
sure I start them at least once a month. I have never used Sta-bil,
nor anything over 87 octane unleaded. I keep my tanks full. A few of
these motors are over 15 years old.

Running them keeps everything lubed as it should be and not allowed to
dry out. I am a firm believer that leaving them sit without running
them is MUCH worse than running them. But, to each their own.

Hank <~~~get the motor running, head on down the highway
s***@dog.com
2009-11-12 00:10:10 UTC
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Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 00:27:54 UTC
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Post by s***@dog.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
i***@webtv.net
2009-11-12 00:38:40 UTC
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Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
I use the Sta-bil in a fresh container of gas in the Spring. Whenever
I refill that container it gets another dose of Sta-bil.
  What's wrong with 92 octane?  Just make sure it is ethanol free.
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot? And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 01:10:17 UTC
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Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
I use the Sta-bil in a fresh container of gas in the Spring. Whenever
I refill that container it gets another dose of Sta-bil.
  What's wrong with 92 octane?  Just make sure it is ethanol free.
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot? And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.
High octane fuel causing an engine to run hot is a MYTH. - and getting
ethanol free high-test is a LOT easier than finding ethanol free
regular.
Doug
2009-11-12 01:21:09 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot? And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.
High octane fuel causing an engine to run hot is a MYTH. - and getting
ethanol free high-test is a LOT easier than finding ethanol free
regular.
Just FYI, it was my lawnmower service mechanics who suggested high
octane.
"Oh, we always use the premium gas!" I had never heard that before
myself.
Sounded a bit fishy.

The business about lead substitute was from an elderly neighbor, who
probably is pre-1975 in his 2-cycle universe.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 01:30:58 UTC
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Post by Doug
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot? And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.
High octane fuel causing an engine to run hot is a MYTH. - and getting
ethanol free high-test is a LOT easier than finding ethanol free
regular.
Just FYI, it was my lawnmower service mechanics who suggested high
octane.
"Oh, we always use the premium gas!" I had never heard that before
myself.
Sounded a bit fishy.
The business about lead substitute was from an elderly neighbor, who
probably is pre-1975 in his 2-cycle universe.
Leaded fuel is NOT required (or even desired) in 2 stroke engines.
Lead was required to protect the valves, which the VAST majority of 2
stroke gasoline engines do not have.
mm
2009-11-12 06:02:36 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Doug
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot? And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.
High octane fuel causing an engine to run hot is a MYTH. - and getting
ethanol free high-test is a LOT easier than finding ethanol free
regular.
Just FYI, it was my lawnmower service mechanics who suggested high
octane.
"Oh, we always use the premium gas!" I had never heard that before
myself.
Sounded a bit fishy.
The business about lead substitute was from an elderly neighbor, who
probably is pre-1975 in his 2-cycle universe.
Leaded fuel is NOT required (or even desired) in 2 stroke engines.
Lead was required to protect the valves, which the VAST majority of 2
stroke gasoline engines do not have.
We should protect them anyhow.

Why rely on lame excuses?
Stormin Mormon
2009-11-12 11:51:20 UTC
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Two strokes have a reed valve, instead of the kind found in
four strokes. The four stroke valves, I'm not sure what they
are called.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Leaded fuel is NOT required (or even desired) in 2 stroke
engines.
Lead was required to protect the valves, which the VAST
majority of 2
stroke gasoline engines do not have.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 00:50:56 UTC
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On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:51:20 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
Post by Stormin Mormon
Two strokes have a reed valve, instead of the kind found in
four strokes. The four stroke valves, I'm not sure what they
are called.
SOME 2 strokes have reed valves. Some have rotary valves, and SOME are
totally port timed.using no valves at all.
Then there are 2 stroke engines that use valves just like a 4 stroke
and use forced induction.(and have oil in the crankcase like a 4
stroke)

However, the most common 2 strokes are either valveless or have reed
valces - which are not exposed to the "dragon's breath" and therefore
do not suffer from seat welding/erosion like 4 stroke engines - which
is what lead in the fuel was pretty good at preventing. - so - lead is
NOT required on most 2 stroke engines, and in fact is more of a
problem than a help.
HeyBub
2009-11-12 14:21:41 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Leaded fuel is NOT required (or even desired) in 2 stroke engines.
Lead was required to protect the valves, which the VAST majority of 2
stroke gasoline engines do not have.
Tetraethyl lead was added more to increase the octane rating of gasoline
than protection of the engine parts.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 00:53:17 UTC
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Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Leaded fuel is NOT required (or even desired) in 2 stroke engines.
Lead was required to protect the valves, which the VAST majority of 2
stroke gasoline engines do not have.
Tetraethyl lead was added more to increase the octane rating of gasoline
than protection of the engine parts.
Yes, the valve protection was a side benefit - and most 2 stroke
utility engines do not need high octane. Those that do (racing marine
and snowmobile come to mind) like unleaded high octane much better
than leaded.
Without lead, better seat and valve face material is required for long
life on 4 strokes.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-12 13:00:49 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by i***@webtv.net
Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
I use the Sta-bil in a fresh container of gas in the Spring. Whenever
I refill that container it gets another dose of Sta-bil.
  What's wrong with 92 octane?  Just make sure it is ethanol free.
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot? And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.
High octane fuel causing an engine to run hot is a MYTH. - and getting
ethanol free high-test is a LOT easier than finding ethanol free
regular.
High Octane fuel, burns slower than low octane and when used in a
typical low compression lawnmower engine will cause excessive carbon
buildup. That is a FACT.
Steve
2018-05-12 14:14:02 UTC
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replying to salty, Steve wrote:
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/gasoline-for-lawnmower-405714-.htm
trader_4
2018-05-12 14:34:16 UTC
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Post by Steve
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/gasoline-for-lawnmower-405714-.htm
Since it's new, call up the store where you bought it and ask them
how to return it. The gas isn't your problem, unless the can had water
in it, debris, etc. Mowers will run with regular or hi test, no difference.
There is a difference between ethanol free gas and gas that has ethanol.
But that makes no difference when the gas is fresh. If it sits around
for months, gas with alcohol will absorb water, which then turns into
gunk and can foul the carb.
h***@ccanoemail.ca
2018-05-12 14:57:32 UTC
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I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Check the oil ? Check the spark plug ?
Check the fuel shut-off valve ? Check the air filter ?
.. check that it's not an electric mower ! :-)
John T.
Frank
2018-05-12 16:39:45 UTC
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Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
Post by Steve
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Check the oil ? Check the spark plug ?
Check the fuel shut-off valve ? Check the air filter ?
.. check that it's not an electric mower ! :-)
John T.
There is compression ratio difference between cars and that would make
me wonder. Cars require higher octane.
trader_4
2018-05-12 17:08:34 UTC
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Post by Frank
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
Post by Steve
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Check the oil ? Check the spark plug ?
Check the fuel shut-off valve ? Check the air filter ?
.. check that it's not an electric mower ! :-)
John T.
There is compression ratio difference between cars and that would make
me wonder. Cars require higher octane.
That's correct. Higher octane allows higher compression ratio without
pre-ignition occurring, which is a problem and can cause engine damage.
If an engine doesn't have high compression, (the mower does not),
then either regular or hi test will work the same. The high test gas
is not his problem.
h***@ccanoemail.ca
2018-05-12 17:25:35 UTC
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The high test gas is not his problem.
... it is - if it's a diesel engine ! :-)
.. how little we actually know ..
.. it's from HomeOwnersHub - 'nuff said..
John T.
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
2018-05-12 17:30:39 UTC
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Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
The high test gas is not his problem.
... it is - if it's a diesel engine ! :-)
.. how little we actually know ..
.. it's from HomeOwnersHub - 'nuff said..
John T.
You get diesel mowers?! I thought small diesel engines weren't worthwhile.
--
Two blondes living in Oklahoma were sitting on a bench talking, and one blonde says to the other, "Which do you think is farther away... Florida or the moon?"
The other blonde turns and says "Helloooooooooo, can you see Florida ?????"
Juan Deere
2018-05-12 18:09:47 UTC
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The high test gas is not his problem.
... it is -  if it's a diesel engine  !    :-)
.. how little we actually know ..
..   it's from HomeOwnersHub  -  'nuff said..
    John T.
You get diesel mowers?!  I thought small diesel engines weren't worthwhile.
Watch u think about this small diesel?


Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
2018-05-12 18:21:13 UTC
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Post by Juan Deere
Post by Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
The high test gas is not his problem.
... it is - if it's a diesel engine ! :-)
.. how little we actually know ..
.. it's from HomeOwnersHub - 'nuff said..
John T.
You get diesel mowers?! I thought small diesel engines weren't worthwhile.
Watch u think about this small diesel?
http://youtu.be/qbIOsC_XXyc
That's not a mower, that's a tractor!
--
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kick boxing.
Peeler
2018-05-12 20:28:18 UTC
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On Sat, 12 May 2018 14:09:47 -0400, Juan Deere, yet another, "new",
Post by Juan Deere
You get diesel mowers?!  I thought small diesel engines weren't worthwhile.
Watch u think about this small diesel?
NOTHING! But he thanks your for being dumb enough to feed him, troll-feeding
moron!

h***@ccanoemail.ca
2018-05-12 18:46:14 UTC
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On Sat, 12 May 2018 18:30:39 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
Post by Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
The high test gas is not his problem.
... it is - if it's a diesel engine ! :-)
.. how little we actually know ..
.. it's from HomeOwnersHub - 'nuff said..
John T.
You get diesel mowers?! I thought small diesel engines weren't worthwhile.
https://www.toro.com/en/professional-contractor/commercial-mowers/zmaster-7500-d-rear-discharge-74096
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
2018-05-12 19:14:54 UTC
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Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
On Sat, 12 May 2018 18:30:39 +0100, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
The high test gas is not his problem.
... it is - if it's a diesel engine ! :-)
.. how little we actually know ..
.. it's from HomeOwnersHub - 'nuff said..
John T.
You get diesel mowers?! I thought small diesel engines weren't worth=
while.
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
https://www.toro.com/en/professional-contractor/commercial-mowers/zmas=
ter-7500-d-rear-discharge-74096

You silly American, that's a tractor, THIS is a mower:
http://www.mowdirect.co.uk/lawnflite-18spr-self-propelled-petrol-rear-ro=
ller-lawnmower.html

-- =

A bunch of lawyers were sitting around the office playing poker.
=E2=80=9CI win!=E2=80=9D says Johnson at which point Henderson throws do=
wn his cards. =E2=80=9CThat=E2=80=99s it! I've had it! Johnson is che=
ating!!!=E2=80=9D
=E2=80=9CHow can you tell?=E2=80=9D Phillips asked.
=E2=80=9CThose aren't the cards I dealt him!=E2=80=9D
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
2018-05-12 17:31:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it=E2=80=99s hard to sta=
rt. When it did
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn=E2=80=99t start. What =
should I do?
Post by h***@ccanoemail.ca
Check the oil ? Check the spark plug ?
Check the fuel shut-off valve ? Check the air filter ?
.. check that it's not an electric mower ! :-)
John T.
There is compression ratio difference between cars and that would make=
me wonder. Cars require higher octane.
So what do you put in your mower? In the UK we use regular unleaded - t=
he stuff most cars use.

-- =

A Muslim was sitting next to Paddy on a plane.
Paddy ordered a whisky.
The stewardess asked the Muslim if he'd like a drink.
He replied in disgust "I'd rather be raped by a dozen whores than let li=
quor touch my lips!"
Paddy handed his drink back and said
"Me too, I didn't know we had a choice!"
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-05-12 17:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Hire a nigger or mexican to mow it.
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-05-12 18:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 12 May 2018 10:44:28 -0700, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Hire a nigger
A useless one like you, Midnight?

- -

" I don't even have the heart to tell him I've never infested
Arizona."
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he lied
from the very beginning, A jew scam, as expected

" My real name's McGill. The jew thing I just do for the homeboys.
They all want a pipe hitting member of the tribe, so to speak."
- Saul Goodman (Bob Odenkirk). "Better Call Saul" (2015)

"Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
- Heinrich von Treitschke (1834 - 1896)

"But vhere vill ve be able to vatch gay jews taking black cock up ze
ass?"
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), bemoaning the depletion of jews
in Hollyvood and the effect on his viewing preferences
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-05-12 19:41:43 UTC
Permalink
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Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
On Sat, 12 May 2018 10:44:28 -0700, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Steve
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Hire a nigger
A useless one like you, Midnight?
I'm still doin' that research, igorant serbian slut!
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2018-05-12 19:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 12 May 2018 12:41:43 -0700, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
On Sat, 12 May 2018 10:44:28 -0700, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Hire a nigger
A useless one like you, Midnight?
I'm still doin' that research, igorant serbian slut!
You're wasting yer time, Midnight. Once, a moulie ALL ways a moulie!


- -

" I don't even have the heart to tell him I've never infested
Arizona."
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he lied
from the very beginning, A jew scam, as expected

" My real name's McGill. The jew thing I just do for the homeboys.
They all want a pipe hitting member of the tribe, so to speak."
- Saul Goodman (Bob Odenkirk). "Better Call Saul" (2015)

"Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
- Heinrich von Treitschke (1834 - 1896)

"But vhere vill ve be able to vatch gay jews taking black cock up ze
ass?"
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), bemoaning the depletion of jews
in Hollyvood and the effect on his viewing preferences
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-05-12 20:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
On Sat, 12 May 2018 12:41:43 -0700, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
On Sat, 12 May 2018 10:44:28 -0700, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Steve
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Hire a nigger
A useless one like you, Midnight?
I'm still doin' that research, igorant serbian slut!
You're wasting yer time, Midnight. Once, a moulie ALL ways a moulie!
Okay, I'm done now.
You ready for that skull-fucking?
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-05-12 17:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Steve
I used hi test gas in my new toro mower and it’s hard to start. When it did
start it sputtered like crazy. Then it wouldn’t start. What should I do?
Hire a nigger or mexican to mow it.
SteveB
2009-11-12 22:27:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot? And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.

If you RTFM, on most small engines, 87 octane is the highest recommended.
But who reads those? Now, I said MOST. That does not mean ALL. If you
have any doubt, just look in that little paper manual that came with the
machine. Remember that? No. Oh, well, you can download one.

Steve
s***@dog.com
2009-11-12 22:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by i***@webtv.net
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot?
Rich? Please define what you mean by rich.
Post by i***@webtv.net
And in my
area finding the ethanol-free gas is getting extremely difficult.
If you RTFM, on most small engines, 87 octane is the highest recommended.
But who reads those? Now, I said MOST. That does not mean ALL. If you
have any doubt, just look in that little paper manual that came with the
machine. Remember that? No. Oh, well, you can download one.
Steve
Tony
2009-11-13 14:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by i***@webtv.net
It is my understanding on smaller engines the 92 octane is a far too
rich to be used perhaps causing the engine to run too hot?
Rich? Please define what you mean by rich.
Rich as in someone paid too much for it.
Oren
2009-11-12 00:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?

It will burn hot (92), damage the spark plug and maybe internal parts
like rings or pistons or warp a valve. (prolonged use)

87 octane for a small engines.

I put 87 octane in my truck. My mower can run on the same - it's not
special, nor deserves 92 octane.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 01:21:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Oren
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?
It will burn hot (92), damage the spark plug and maybe internal parts
like rings or pistons or warp a valve. (prolonged use)
87 octane for a small engines.
I put 87 octane in my truck. My mower can run on the same - it's not
special, nor deserves 92 octane.
Are you a mechanic? A small engine mechanic? or an engine designer?

I'm not the latter, but both of the first two. High octane is not
required by most small engines, but is NOT damaging to use. The only
reason I recommend premium fuel, and in particular, in Canada, SHELL
premium, is because SHELL has gone on record in Canada as guaranteeing
there is NO ETHANOL in their premium fuel.

Years ago, with leaded fuel, there WAS an issue with using premium
leaded fuel in small engines (and air cooled engines in general) due
to lead accumulation on valves and valve stems causing valves to
stick. Sticking valves overheat. In aircraft engines (which I am also
familiar with) designed for the old 87 octane fuel (no longer made)
agressive leaning (lean of peak EGT) is required to keep lead buildup
from causing "morning sickness" - or sticking valves on startup when
using LL100, the universally available AvGas of today.

Lead buildup was the only thing that would damage spark plugs due to
running premium fuel - and again, that is no longer an issue..

The other advantage of using higher octane fuel in air-cooled engines
is you are MUCH less likely to destroy a piston due to detonation in
the event you do overheat the engine under load. Not usually an issue
with "L" head engines, but possible with today's higher compression
OHV engines.
Oren
2009-11-12 01:51:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Oren
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?
It will burn hot (92), damage the spark plug and maybe internal parts
like rings or pistons or warp a valve. (prolonged use)
87 octane for a small engines.
I put 87 octane in my truck. My mower can run on the same - it's not
special, nor deserves 92 octane.
Are you a mechanic? A small engine mechanic? or an engine designer?
I'm not the latter, but both of the first two. High octane is not
required by most small engines, but is NOT damaging to use. The only
reason I recommend premium fuel, and in particular, in Canada, SHELL
premium, is because SHELL has gone on record in Canada as guaranteeing
there is NO ETHANOL in their premium fuel.
Years ago, with leaded fuel, there WAS an issue with using premium
leaded fuel in small engines (and air cooled engines in general) due
to lead accumulation on valves and valve stems causing valves to
stick. Sticking valves overheat. In aircraft engines (which I am also
familiar with) designed for the old 87 octane fuel (no longer made)
agressive leaning (lean of peak EGT) is required to keep lead buildup
from causing "morning sickness" - or sticking valves on startup when
using LL100, the universally available AvGas of today.
Lead buildup was the only thing that would damage spark plugs due to
running premium fuel - and again, that is no longer an issue..
The other advantage of using higher octane fuel in air-cooled engines
is you are MUCH less likely to destroy a piston due to detonation in
the event you do overheat the engine under load. Not usually an issue
with "L" head engines, but possible with today's higher compression
OHV engines.
I'm not from Canuckistan, in Nevadatuckey I use 87 octane.

YMMV
s***@dog.com
2009-11-12 13:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Oren
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?
It will burn hot (92), damage the spark plug and maybe internal parts
like rings or pistons or warp a valve. (prolonged use)
87 octane for a small engines.
I put 87 octane in my truck. My mower can run on the same - it's not
special, nor deserves 92 octane.
Are you a mechanic? A small engine mechanic? or an engine designer?
I'm not the latter, but both of the first two. High octane is not
required by most small engines, but is NOT damaging to use.
Actually, it is quite damaging. It causes excessive carbon buildup
which requires an expensive engine tear down to fix. It may even lead
to cylinder scoring and broken rings, inaddition to valve damage.
Patrick Karl
2009-11-12 23:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Oren
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?
I am pretty sure that my Stihl chainsaw calls for gasoline with an
octane rating of greater than 87. I'm not sure if it calls for 89 or 92
octane.
Oren
2009-11-12 23:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Patrick Karl
Post by Oren
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?
I am pretty sure that my Stihl chainsaw calls for gasoline with an
octane rating of greater than 87. I'm not sure if it calls for 89 or 92
octane.
Sorry. I was *meaning* "lawnmower" the OP mentioned.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 03:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Patrick Karl
Post by Oren
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?
I am pretty sure that my Stihl chainsaw calls for gasoline with an
octane rating of greater than 87. I'm not sure if it calls for 89 or 92
octane.
My little remington is extremely high compression and definitely likes
high octane fuel. My partner would likely run on kerosine
s***@dog.com
2009-11-13 11:35:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Patrick Karl
Post by Oren
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
What small engine book suggests a higher octane?
I am pretty sure that my Stihl chainsaw calls for gasoline with an
octane rating of greater than 87. I'm not sure if it calls for 89 or 92
octane.
Let us know when you find out. As has been pointed out, the
recommendation for 87 octane applies to MOST small equipment engines.
You may have one of the few exceptions. What model is your saw?
s***@dog.com
2009-11-12 01:50:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Lawnmowers run much better with 87 Octane than 92. High Octane gas is
only an advantage in engines designed for it. On your other point... I
don't think you can buy ethanol free 87 Octane gasoline in the U.S.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 05:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Lawnmowers run much better with 87 Octane than 92. High Octane gas is
only an advantage in engines designed for it. On your other point... I
don't think you can buy ethanol free 87 Octane gasoline in the U.S.
Like I said, if you read my posting, the higher octane is not the
reason to use it - but I have NEVER noticed an engine running more
poorly on 93 octane than on 87 - and I've owned a lot of cars that
specified regular gas that DID run better on premium - some so much
better that the increased fuel economy more than paid the difference
in cost - back in the day when premium was only $0.05 a gallon more
than the low octane stuff.

And if that 87 octane in your lawn mower is 5 - 10% ethanol and has
sat for a week in 90% humidity, the ethanol free 93 will run a WHOLE
LOT better.

I had a few gallons of old av-gas (100LL - about 3 times as much lead
as the old Sunoco 260) removed from a friend's plane when he did his
annual - and the Briggs 5 horse on my old lawn mower just loved it. So
did my chain-saw. I would not use it on a regular basis because the
lead could cause issues - but the higher octane and lower vapour
pressure didn't hurt the performance of either one at all.
Stormin Mormon
2009-11-12 11:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I did meet a long haul driver who told me his family mini
van ran poorly on 93 octane. Chevy Astro, I want to say. The
dealership guys suggested he go back to 87, which worked
much better.

My Dad used to run 93 octane in the old lawn mower
(Tecumseh, from 20 years or so ago) and it always worked
fine. Don't remember if he ran it dry.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


<***@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:50:25 -0500, ***@dog.com wrote:


I have NEVER noticed an engine running more
poorly on 93 octane than on 87 -
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 01:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:50:14 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
Post by Stormin Mormon
I did meet a long haul driver who told me his family mini
van ran poorly on 93 octane. Chevy Astro, I want to say. The
dealership guys suggested he go back to 87, which worked
much better.
Switching to a different brand would likely have done the same. -
depending on the problem. A lot of American gas uses ethanol to
increase the octane - and THAT can make an engine complain because
ethanol has roughly half the fuel value gasoline has - and it absorbs
water too, making the mixture even leaner yet.
Post by Stormin Mormon
My Dad used to run 93 octane in the old lawn mower
(Tecumseh, from 20 years or so ago) and it always worked
fine. Don't remember if he ran it dry.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-12 13:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Lawnmowers run much better with 87 Octane than 92. High Octane gas is
only an advantage in engines designed for it. On your other point... I
don't think you can buy ethanol free 87 Octane gasoline in the U.S.
Like I said, if you read my posting, the higher octane is not the
reason to use it - but I have NEVER noticed an engine running more
poorly on 93 octane than on 87 - and I've owned a lot of cars that
specified regular gas that DID run better on premium - some so much
better that the increased fuel economy more than paid the difference
in cost - back in the day when premium was only $0.05 a gallon more
than the low octane stuff.
And if that 87 octane in your lawn mower is 5 - 10% ethanol and has
sat for a week in 90% humidity, the ethanol free 93 will run a WHOLE
LOT better.
I had a few gallons of old av-gas (100LL - about 3 times as much lead
as the old Sunoco 260) removed from a friend's plane when he did his
annual - and the Briggs 5 horse on my old lawn mower just loved it. So
did my chain-saw. I would not use it on a regular basis because the
lead could cause issues - but the higher octane and lower vapour
pressure didn't hurt the performance of either one at all.
For someone who claims to be a professional mechanic, you sure don't
know much about engines. You are pretty good at making up your own
fantasies about them.

Using 92 Octane gasoline in small engines where 87 Octane is specified
WILL cause problems. That is a FACT. You don't seem to understand the
difference between low and high Octane gasoline.
George
2009-11-12 12:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Lawnmowers run much better with 87 Octane than 92. High Octane gas is
only an advantage in engines designed for it. On your other point... I
don't think you can buy ethanol free 87 Octane gasoline in the U.S.
You can and it would typically be at an independent station. But the
government increased the subsidies earlier this year so it wholesales
for less than the good stuff. I know of a local owner who has two
stations that each do 14,000+ gallons of fuel sales/day. He doesn't like
the idea of ethanol. But the government increased the amount of money
they pull out of our pockets to subsidize it so now it is artificially
cheaper than quality gasoline. The big box places immediately jumped on
it and lowered their prices. He can't afford to not do it so he is
converting both plazas to ethanol blend. Typical big box race to the bottom.
HeyBub
2009-11-12 14:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Higher Octane = higher ignition temperature. It is called for to prevent
'knocking' in high-compression engines. Unless you have a high-performance,
high-compression engine (such as a race care or Lamborghini), higher Octane
ratings mean higher prices and nothing else.

A high-octane fuel does not contain more energy than a lower-octane
competitor, it only burns slower. For small engines (lawnmowers,
leaf-blowers, marital aids), a slow-burning (i.e., 90+ Octane) fuel is not
the fuel of choice.

For your car, on your next empty, put in five gallons of 87 Octane. If the
engine doesn't knock at higher speeds or when accelerating, you can
thereafter save $2.00 or more each fill-up.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 00:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Higher Octane = higher ignition temperature. It is called for to prevent
'knocking' in high-compression engines. Unless you have a high-performance,
high-compression engine (such as a race care or Lamborghini), higher Octane
ratings mean higher prices and nothing else.
FALSE
Post by HeyBub
A high-octane fuel does not contain more energy than a lower-octane
competitor, it only burns slower. For small engines (lawnmowers,
leaf-blowers, marital aids), a slow-burning (i.e., 90+ Octane) fuel is not
the fuel of choice.
ANd not necessarily true. There are many high octane fuels that burn
as fast or faster than many low octane fuels.
Post by HeyBub
For your car, on your next empty, put in five gallons of 87 Octane. If the
engine doesn't knock at higher speeds or when accelerating, you can
thereafter save $2.00 or more each fill-up.
On some cars. On others the computer adjusts for the low octane fuel,
retarding the timing and increasing the amount of fuel burned so you
save a lot less than you think you will.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-13 11:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Higher Octane = higher ignition temperature. It is called for to prevent
'knocking' in high-compression engines. Unless you have a high-performance,
high-compression engine (such as a race care or Lamborghini), higher Octane
ratings mean higher prices and nothing else.
FALSE
Post by HeyBub
A high-octane fuel does not contain more energy than a lower-octane
competitor, it only burns slower. For small engines (lawnmowers,
leaf-blowers, marital aids), a slow-burning (i.e., 90+ Octane) fuel is not
the fuel of choice.
ANd not necessarily true. There are many high octane fuels that burn
as fast or faster than many low octane fuels.
FALSE, if by "fuels" you mean gasoline. Higher octane is expressley
there to make the fuel burn slower. That is the purpose of high octane
in gasoline. What did you think it was for?
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 23:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Higher Octane = higher ignition temperature. It is called for to prevent
'knocking' in high-compression engines. Unless you have a high-performance,
high-compression engine (such as a race care or Lamborghini), higher Octane
ratings mean higher prices and nothing else.
FALSE
Post by HeyBub
A high-octane fuel does not contain more energy than a lower-octane
competitor, it only burns slower. For small engines (lawnmowers,
leaf-blowers, marital aids), a slow-burning (i.e., 90+ Octane) fuel is not
the fuel of choice.
ANd not necessarily true. There are many high octane fuels that burn
as fast or faster than many low octane fuels.
FALSE, if by "fuels" you mean gasoline. Higher octane is expressley
there to make the fuel burn slower. That is the purpose of high octane
in gasoline. What did you think it was for?
Well you are talking to the wrong person if you are expecting someone
to believe rate of burn, or rate of combustion has anything directly
to do with octane.
A FASTER burnig fuelis actually LESS likely to detonate, because the
"end gasses" of combustion are exposed to high heat and pressure for a
shorter time, and therefore are less likely to dissassociate and turn
into unstable radicals, which then "detonate" in the cyl.

High octane is NOT to make the "fuel" burn slower. It is to prevent
the "fuel" from breaking down into unstable compounds which "explode"
in the cyl.

That I KNOW for a FACT.
TEL and other octane enhancement chemical additives in fuel act as
"anti-catalysts" to prevent that breakdown or disassociation.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-14 02:58:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Use Stabil. It must be added to the gas when the gas is still fresh.
Nothing will revive old gas and the problems it causes. Do NOT use 92
octane gas in a lawn mower! Also skip the lead substitute if your
mower is newer than 1975.
What's wrong with 92 octane? Just make sure it is ethanol free.
Higher Octane = higher ignition temperature. It is called for to prevent
'knocking' in high-compression engines. Unless you have a high-performance,
high-compression engine (such as a race care or Lamborghini), higher Octane
ratings mean higher prices and nothing else.
FALSE
Post by HeyBub
A high-octane fuel does not contain more energy than a lower-octane
competitor, it only burns slower. For small engines (lawnmowers,
leaf-blowers, marital aids), a slow-burning (i.e., 90+ Octane) fuel is not
the fuel of choice.
ANd not necessarily true. There are many high octane fuels that burn
as fast or faster than many low octane fuels.
FALSE, if by "fuels" you mean gasoline. Higher octane is expressley
there to make the fuel burn slower. That is the purpose of high octane
in gasoline. What did you think it was for?
Well you are talking to the wrong person if you are expecting someone
to believe rate of burn, or rate of combustion has anything directly
to do with octane.
A FASTER burnig fuelis actually LESS likely to detonate, because the
"end gasses" of combustion are exposed to high heat and pressure for a
shorter time, and therefore are less likely to dissassociate and turn
into unstable radicals, which then "detonate" in the cyl.
High octane is NOT to make the "fuel" burn slower. It is to prevent
the "fuel" from breaking down into unstable compounds which "explode"
in the cyl.
That I KNOW for a FACT.
TEL and other octane enhancement chemical additives in fuel act as
"anti-catalysts" to prevent that breakdown or disassociation.
Now that there is COMEDY GOLD!
HeyBub
2009-11-14 12:44:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well you are talking to the wrong person if you are expecting someone
to believe rate of burn, or rate of combustion has anything directly
to do with octane.
A FASTER burnig fuelis actually LESS likely to detonate, because the
"end gasses" of combustion are exposed to high heat and pressure for a
shorter time, and therefore are less likely to dissassociate and turn
into unstable radicals, which then "detonate" in the cyl.
High octane is NOT to make the "fuel" burn slower. It is to prevent
the "fuel" from breaking down into unstable compounds which "explode"
in the cyl.
That I KNOW for a FACT.
TEL and other octane enhancement chemical additives in fuel act as
"anti-catalysts" to prevent that breakdown or disassociation.
Giggle.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 00:24:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use fuel without ethanol. In Canada that means Shell Gold.
Not sure about in the USA. LL100 AvGas works good too, but not easy to
get your hands on if you don't have a plane.
Phisherman
2009-11-12 13:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use fuel without ethanol. In Canada that means Shell Gold.
Not sure about in the USA. LL100 AvGas works good too, but not easy to
get your hands on if you don't have a plane.
Where can you buy gasoline without ethanol? That was a "smart fix" to
contaminate our gasoline and raise the price of corn.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 00:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Phisherman
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Use fuel without ethanol. In Canada that means Shell Gold.
Not sure about in the USA. LL100 AvGas works good too, but not easy to
get your hands on if you don't have a plane.
Where can you buy gasoline without ethanol? That was a "smart fix" to
contaminate our gasoline and raise the price of corn.
I just told you. Shell Ultra (gold) gas does not have ethanol in it
in Canada.. So you can buy it at any Shell gas station in canada.

Also, AvGas NEVER has ethanol in it.
HeyBub
2009-11-12 14:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Use fuel without ethanol. In Canada that means Shell Gold.
Not sure about in the USA. LL100 AvGas works good too, but not easy to
get your hands on if you don't have a plane.
Got a boat?
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 00:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Use fuel without ethanol. In Canada that means Shell Gold.
Not sure about in the USA. LL100 AvGas works good too, but not easy to
get your hands on if you don't have a plane.
Got a boat?
Cannot legally put av-gas in a boat.
HeyBub
2009-11-13 23:05:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Use fuel without ethanol. In Canada that means Shell Gold.
Not sure about in the USA. LL100 AvGas works good too, but not easy
to get your hands on if you don't have a plane.
Got a boat?
Cannot legally put av-gas in a boat.
Not even an air boat? How about a sea plane?
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-14 05:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by HeyBub
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Use fuel without ethanol. In Canada that means Shell Gold.
Not sure about in the USA. LL100 AvGas works good too, but not easy
to get your hands on if you don't have a plane.
Got a boat?
Cannot legally put av-gas in a boat.
Not even an air boat? How about a sea plane?
A sea plane yes - an air boat no. At least in Ontario.
Tony Hwang
2009-11-12 01:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Hmmm,
That is all myth to me. I took out my John Deere mower I shut down last
fall(I ran it until it quit running out of gas) fill some fresh regular
gas, it started in two pulls. I always store 2 or 4 cycle tools
after gas runs out. My chain saw when I need it feel fresh mix and it
always starts within couple pulls. Weed eater is same. I don't do any
thing special other than that.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-12 01:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Hwang
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
Hmmm,
That is all myth to me. I took out my John Deere mower I shut down last
fall(I ran it until it quit running out of gas) fill some fresh regular
gas, it started in two pulls. I always store 2 or 4 cycle tools
after gas runs out. My chain saw when I need it feel fresh mix and it
always starts within couple pulls. Weed eater is same. I don't do any
thing special other than that.
My chain saw has a pressurized (sealed) fuel tank and even if I leave
it for 2 years it always starts on about the second or third pull.
The weed eater and leaf blower are another story!!! No sealed tanks,
and hard enough to start after 2 WEEKS of sitting.
mm
2009-11-12 06:03:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Running them once a month would work but I'll never do that and many
people won't.
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas,
ABSolutlely. It's worked great for me. I used to make sure the last
two fills had stabil, because some gas from the next to last fill up
mixes with the gas from the last fill-up and who knows what makes it
into the tube to the carburertor bowl or other carburetor parts. But
I never know when lawnmower season will end so now I just use it all
the time.
Post by Doug
(2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and
I don't think that matters.
Post by Doug
(3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
That certainly doesn't matter.

The only reason to use high octane is if an engine is knocking and
lawnmowers are not high enough compression to knock with low octane
gas, and in addition, I've read that knocking due to low octane
doesn't hurt the engine.

Is your lawnmower knocking? (It sounds something like knocking on a
door) If not, you have no use for either higher octane gas or lead
substitute. If you think it is, what engine do you have, brand, size,
compression ratio?
Post by Doug
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
They probably say to drain the gas and then run it until the engine
stops. I think they should mention Stabil too. I can't help but
think that is better, because, tell me folks, when the engine stops,
there is still more tahn half a bowl of gas left in the carburetor
bowl, right?

After all, with a full carburetor bowl, the gas level in the bowl and
the related venturi tube, or whatever it's called, is just below
ovverflowing and a little bit of vacuum sucks it up, but if it drops
even less than a quarter inch, the engine won't run.

There are probably similar problems, I mean issues, with non-bowl
carburetors.

Or do they say to disassemble the bowl and drain that too? I don't
think so.
teabird
2009-11-12 13:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mm
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Running them once a month would work but I'll never do that and many
people won't.
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas,
ABSolutlely.  It's worked great for me.   I used to make sure the last
two fills had stabil, because some gas from the next to last fill up
mixes with the gas from the last fill-up and who knows what makes it
into the tube to the carburertor bowl or other carburetor parts.  But
I never know when lawnmower season will end so now I just use it all
the time.
Post by Doug
(2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and
I don't think that matters.
Post by Doug
(3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
That certainly doesn't matter.
The only reason to use high octane is if an engine is knocking and
lawnmowers are not high enough compression to knock with low octane
gas, and in addition, I've read that knocking due to low octane
doesn't hurt the engine.
Is your lawnmower knocking?  (It sounds something like knocking on a
door) If not, you have no use for either higher octane gas or lead
substitute.  If you think it is, what engine do you have, brand, size,
compression ratio?
Post by Doug
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
They probably say to drain the gas and then run it until the engine
stops.  I think they should mention Stabil too.  I can't help but
think that is better, because, tell me folks, when the engine stops,
there is still more tahn half a bowl of gas left in the carburetor
bowl, right?  
After all, with a full carburetor bowl, the gas level in the bowl and
the related venturi tube, or whatever it's called, is just below
ovverflowing and a little bit of vacuum sucks it up, but if it drops
even less than a quarter inch, the engine won't run.
There are probably similar problems, I mean issues, with non-bowl
carburetors.
Or do they say to disassemble the bowl and drain that too?  I don't
think so.
I've never bothered with my lawnmower, but my motorcycle carburetor
has a nipple on the bottom of the bowl and a screw for draining. I do
it every winter.
Doug
2009-11-12 13:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
So I use regular gas (ideally without ethanol), with no lead
substitute.

High octane and lead substitute are simply a waste. (I don't use
Premium in my cars.) I use fuel stabilizer if I'm going to leave the
tank with gas in it for a few weeks without running the engine.

That's easy. Thanks!
Phisherman
2009-11-12 12:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The better high-grade gasolines have cleaners already mixed in. Avoid
gasoline additives, Sta-Bil-treated gas is good. Keep the area
around the gas cap clean. Replace filters each year.
t***@optonline.net
2009-11-12 13:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The better high-grade gasolines have cleaners already mixed in.  Avoid
gasoline additives,  Sta-Bil-treated gas is good.  Keep the area
around the gas cap clean.  Replace filters each year.
I'm surprised no one has suugested RTFM. Most manuals I've read
these days say to drain/run the engine dry prior to storage. I do
that with my snow blower. With my mower, I just add Sta-Bil to the
last two gallons of gas that I buy. That way it will be in the mower
whenever the last cut happens to be and I store it that way.

My reasoning with the mower is that it's stored for a shorter perioed,
about 4 months vs 9 for the snowblower. I've also only used regular
gas, no additives. I agree with the advice that a higher octane isn't
going to harm the engine and that if you can find alcohol free gas,
that would be good, but I don;t know where you would find it here in
the USA.
Tony
2009-11-12 22:09:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Phisherman
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The better high-grade gasolines have cleaners already mixed in. Avoid
gasoline additives, Sta-Bil-treated gas is good. Keep the area
around the gas cap clean. Replace filters each year.
In the US, the government stepped in long ago and makes sure all grades
and brands of gasoline have cleaning agents and are not supposed to need
any other store bought additives. How often do you hear about actual
clogged fuel injectors these days? I've never had a clogged fuel
injector and I use the cheapest 87 octane I can find. I don't know of
anyone in the last ten or more years that has had a clogged fuel
injector. Do you?
mm
2009-11-13 06:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony
Post by Phisherman
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The better high-grade gasolines have cleaners already mixed in. Avoid
gasoline additives, Sta-Bil-treated gas is good. Keep the area
around the gas cap clean. Replace filters each year.
In the US, the government stepped in long ago and makes sure all grades
and brands of gasoline have cleaning agents and are not supposed to need
any other store bought additives.
I think you're right. When fuel injectors started to be universal,
there was a fight between the gasoline companies and the car
companies. The car companies would only recommend a few gasoline
companies that had sufficiently filtered gas that woudn't clog the
injectors. The gas companies said the injectors should be made better
(although I personally don't know how) I presume the gas companies
lost and they all had to make gas that would work with fuel injectors.

Fuel injectors were necessary to get the gas mileage that the law
required. Because gas could be dispensed in amounts more suited to
the need of the moment, and not just plenty all the time.
Post by Tony
How often do you hear about actual
clogged fuel injectors these days? I've never had a clogged fuel
injector and I use the cheapest 87 octane I can find.
Neither have I. I use injector cleaner when I'm having a problem but
I don't know for sure it's ever helped. The last time was recently
and it didn't help now I thihk the problem was one spark plug wire
wasn't on well.
Post by Tony
I don't know of
anyone in the last ten or more years that has had a clogged fuel
injector. Do you?
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 06:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mm
Post by Tony
Post by Phisherman
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
The better high-grade gasolines have cleaners already mixed in. Avoid
gasoline additives, Sta-Bil-treated gas is good. Keep the area
around the gas cap clean. Replace filters each year.
In the US, the government stepped in long ago and makes sure all grades
and brands of gasoline have cleaning agents and are not supposed to need
any other store bought additives.
I think you're right. When fuel injectors started to be universal,
there was a fight between the gasoline companies and the car
companies. The car companies would only recommend a few gasoline
companies that had sufficiently filtered gas that woudn't clog the
injectors. The gas companies said the injectors should be made better
(although I personally don't know how) I presume the gas companies
lost and they all had to make gas that would work with fuel injectors.
Fuel injectors were necessary to get the gas mileage that the law
required. Because gas could be dispensed in amounts more suited to
the need of the moment, and not just plenty all the time.
Post by Tony
How often do you hear about actual
clogged fuel injectors these days? I've never had a clogged fuel
injector and I use the cheapest 87 octane I can find.
Neither have I. I use injector cleaner when I'm having a problem but
I don't know for sure it's ever helped. The last time was recently
and it didn't help now I thihk the problem was one spark plug wire
wasn't on well.
Post by Tony
I don't know of
anyone in the last ten or more years that has had a clogged fuel
injector. Do you?
Used to be a LOT of injector problems on 2.2 and 2.5 liter K-Cars with
TBI - and cleaning very often fixed them.
They didn't block up , they leaked. Get the gum out and the pintles
could seal properly when they closed, and the stumbling, smoking, and
assorted other problems dissapeard.

Used to have some prblems about the same time (early 80s) with bosch
L-Jetronic based systems too, where the injectors would dribble. A can
of BG 44K usually fixed them up if you caught them soon enough.

Some brands of gas were better than others.
Van Chocstraw
2009-11-12 14:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
That's all a crock. If you use gasoline equipment every year there
should be no problem. I never have gas or starting problems ever.
It takes more than a year for gas to go bad and gum things up. I even
start and warm up things in off season to keep them good.
mm
2009-11-13 06:07:13 UTC
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On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:04:19 -0500, Van Chocstraw
Post by Van Chocstraw
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
That's all a crock. If you use gasoline equipment every year there
should be no problem. I never have gas or starting problems ever.
It takes more than a year for gas to go bad and gum things up.
That's not been my impression. I don't know how you've done so well.
Post by Van Chocstraw
I even
start and warm up things in off season to keep them good.
Well I guess that is how. I'm glad you added that or your post would
have been very misleading, since you started off calling calling all
of it, including the stabilizer, a crock.
t***@optonline.net
2009-11-13 12:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mm
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:04:19 -0500, Van Chocstraw
Post by Van Chocstraw
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
That's all a crock. If you use gasoline equipment every year there
should be no problem. I never have gas or starting problems ever.
It takes more than a year for gas to go bad and gum things up.
That's not been my impression.   I don't know how you've done so well.
Post by Van Chocstraw
I even
start and warm up things in off season to keep them good.
Well I guess that is how.   I'm glad you added that or your post would
have been very misleading, since you started off calling calling all
of it, including the stabilizer, a crock.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I agree. A year ago I forgot to run the snowblower dry and since I
normally do, it didn't have any stabilizer either. Come winter, it
wiould not start. I wound up having to pull the carb, buy a rebuild
kit and clean it. No question there were gum deposits inside which
were the problem. After that, it started right up. So, with about
13 years of experience with no problems, having it gum up the one year
gas was left in it is evidence to me that it's not a crock.

I drain the snowblower and add sta-bil to the lawn mower.
Steve Barker
2009-11-12 20:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
the modern engines are designed for 87 octane unleaded. Stabil in the
tank if it's gonna sit over a year is a good idea. If less than a year,
don't worry about it.

sounds like you were talking to an old timer that didn't know shit.
m***@rochester.rr.com
2009-11-12 23:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Well-seasoned? To me that says old, and old gas is the stuff that
varnished up your carburetor...
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
If the first two are throwing you for a loop, push the mower out to
the side of the road now and put a sign on it that says "FREE." Then
hire your lawn mowed by a professional... It's not difficult to push
the "92" button on the gas pump, or to follow the directions on the
Sta-Bil bottle. You can buy Sta-Bil practically anywhere...

92 octane doesn't hurt. It doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt. The Sta-
Bil is a proven product that keeps your gas from going sour by sitting
around for many months.

Lead additive... That's snake oil. Even if you can find lead additive
and it does do something, your mower doesn't need it unless it is
really really old. Truth is lead additive doesn't do anything, and
nobody sells it.
mm
2009-11-13 06:11:57 UTC
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Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Lead additive... That's snake oil. Even if you can find lead additive
and it does do something, your mower doesn't need it unless it is
really really old. Truth is lead additive doesn't do anything, and
nobody sells it.
Lead was a way of acheiving higher octane (resistance to knocking).
High compression engines will knock with too low octane, but maybe
that is lessened with fuel injection (just a guess), or with a
different spark timing, or maybe cars don't come with 10.5:1
compression ratios anymore.

They've even lowered the octane of gas with the same octane number.
About 20 years ago I think. 92 octane used to mean one thing, but now
92 octane is the same as 89** octane used to be

**not sure of the number.

So no he doesn't need it, but it used to be important.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 06:59:06 UTC
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Post by mm
Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Lead additive... That's snake oil. Even if you can find lead additive
and it does do something, your mower doesn't need it unless it is
really really old. Truth is lead additive doesn't do anything, and
nobody sells it.
Lead was a way of acheiving higher octane (resistance to knocking).
High compression engines will knock with too low octane, but maybe
that is lessened with fuel injection (just a guess), or with a
different spark timing, or maybe cars don't come with 10.5:1
compression ratios anymore.
They've even lowered the octane of gas with the same octane number.
About 20 years ago I think. 92 octane used to mean one thing, but now
92 octane is the same as 89** octane used to be
**not sure of the number.
So no he doesn't need it, but it used to be important.
The octane ratings have not really changed - in North America anyway,
it's always been R+M/2 (reaserch octane plus Motor octane devided by
two) for automotive gsoline.
Aircraft gasoline is totally different - with the two numbers, say
85/90 being rich/lean ratings.. The aviation lean motor rating is
close to the automotive R+M/2 octane in most cases.

RON, or research octane number, is a mostly theoretical number,
comparing a sample of fuel to a standard mixture of "octane" and
"heptane". The MON, or Motor Octane Number, is measured knock
resistance using a standardized variable compression engine in a
closely controlled load test to detect actual knock resistance under
load in an engine.

In many parts of the world the RON was (and still is) used - In North
America the R+M/2 or "road octane" rating has been used since the late
30s or early 40s.
mm
2009-11-14 02:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by mm
Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Lead additive... That's snake oil. Even if you can find lead additive
and it does do something, your mower doesn't need it unless it is
really really old. Truth is lead additive doesn't do anything, and
nobody sells it.
Lead was a way of acheiving higher octane (resistance to knocking).
High compression engines will knock with too low octane, but maybe
that is lessened with fuel injection (just a guess), or with a
different spark timing, or maybe cars don't come with 10.5:1
compression ratios anymore.
They've even lowered the octane of gas with the same octane number.
About 20 years ago I think. 92 octane used to mean one thing, but now
92 octane is the same as 89** octane used to be
I read what you have below, but I know I was told something like my
paragraph just above. Maybe even heard it on the radio. I googled a
bit now and can't find anything to support my statement, however. Do
you or anyone know what I could be thinking of? Was it a hoax? Does
anyone remember it?
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by mm
**not sure of the number.
So no he doesn't need it, but it used to be important.
The octane ratings have not really changed - in North America anyway,
it's always been R+M/2 (reaserch octane plus Motor octane devided by
two) for automotive gsoline.
Aircraft gasoline is totally different - with the two numbers, say
85/90 being rich/lean ratings.. The aviation lean motor rating is
close to the automotive R+M/2 octane in most cases.
RON, or research octane number, is a mostly theoretical number,
comparing a sample of fuel to a standard mixture of "octane" and
"heptane". The MON, or Motor Octane Number, is measured knock
resistance using a standardized variable compression engine in a
closely controlled load test to detect actual knock resistance under
load in an engine.
In many parts of the world the RON was (and still is) used - In North
America the R+M/2 or "road octane" rating has been used since the late
30s or early 40s.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-13 11:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Well-seasoned? To me that says old, and old gas is the stuff that
varnished up your carburetor...
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
If the first two are throwing you for a loop, push the mower out to
the side of the road now and put a sign on it that says "FREE." Then
hire your lawn mowed by a professional... It's not difficult to push
the "92" button on the gas pump, or to follow the directions on the
Sta-Bil bottle. You can buy Sta-Bil practically anywhere...
92 octane doesn't hurt. It doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt.
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-13 23:15:15 UTC
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Post by s***@dog.com
Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Well-seasoned? To me that says old, and old gas is the stuff that
varnished up your carburetor...
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
If the first two are throwing you for a loop, push the mower out to
the side of the road now and put a sign on it that says "FREE." Then
hire your lawn mowed by a professional... It's not difficult to push
the "92" button on the gas pump, or to follow the directions on the
Sta-Bil bottle. You can buy Sta-Bil practically anywhere...
92 octane doesn't hurt. It doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt.
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.

Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
AZ Nomad
2009-11-13 23:37:33 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
bullshit.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.
Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
agreed. octane is basically the fuel's resistance to preignition.
Going higher than necessary is a waste of money, nothing more.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-14 03:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:37:33 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
bullshit.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.
Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
agreed. octane is basically the fuel's resistance to preignition.
Going higher than necessary is a waste of money, nothing more.
Okay, you are wrong, too, then.
AZ Nomad
2009-11-14 03:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@dog.com
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:37:33 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
bullshit.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.
Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
agreed. octane is basically the fuel's resistance to preignition.
Going higher than necessary is a waste of money, nothing more.
Okay, you are wrong, too, then.
Name one case of an engine destroyed by too high octane fuel.

Otherwise, you are shown to be talking out of your ass yet again.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-14 11:35:24 UTC
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Raw Message
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:12:20 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by s***@dog.com
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:37:33 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
bullshit.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.
Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
agreed. octane is basically the fuel's resistance to preignition.
Going higher than necessary is a waste of money, nothing more.
Okay, you are wrong, too, then.
Name one case of an engine destroyed by too high octane fuel.
Otherwise, you are shown to be talking out of your ass yet again.
Well, for openers I didn't say any engines were destroyed. So now who
is making things up and talking out of their ass?

octane = burn retardant
it slows the bang down for a more even, cooler burn
thats how higher octane 'cures' pinging - by burning cooler and calmer

"Cooler" also promotes carbon buildup in engines that are designed to
run on lower octane gasoline.
AZ Nomad
2009-11-14 13:12:18 UTC
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Post by s***@dog.com
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:12:20 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by s***@dog.com
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:37:33 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
bullshit.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.
Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
agreed. octane is basically the fuel's resistance to preignition.
Going higher than necessary is a waste of money, nothing more.
Okay, you are wrong, too, then.
Name one case of an engine destroyed by too high octane fuel.
Otherwise, you are shown to be talking out of your ass yet again.
Well, for openers I didn't say any engines were destroyed. So now who
is making things up and talking out of their ass?
You said: "It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild."
s***@dog.com
2009-11-14 13:36:41 UTC
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Raw Message
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 07:12:18 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by s***@dog.com
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:12:20 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by s***@dog.com
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:37:33 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
bullshit.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.
Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
agreed. octane is basically the fuel's resistance to preignition.
Going higher than necessary is a waste of money, nothing more.
Okay, you are wrong, too, then.
Name one case of an engine destroyed by too high octane fuel.
Otherwise, you are shown to be talking out of your ass yet again.
Well, for openers I didn't say any engines were destroyed. So now who
is making things up and talking out of their ass?
You said: "It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild."
Yes. That is what I said. I did not, however, say what you pretended I
said.

Your "challenge" was equally intellectually dishonest.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-14 05:42:06 UTC
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On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:37:33 -0600, AZ Nomad
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
bullshit.
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine. High LEAD fuel can damage an engine. High lead fuel is high
octane, but high octane does NOT need to be high lead.
Propane is 115 minimum AKI and unless it is run too lean it will NOT
harm an engine (if the engine has hardened valve seats designed for
lead-free fuel)
High octane unleaded motor fuel without ethanol likewise will not harm
any engine designed to run on regular unleaded gasoline.
agreed. octane is basically the fuel's resistance to preignition.
Going higher than necessary is a waste of money, nothing more.
You need to understand the difference between detonation and
pre-ignition. Pre-ignition is ignition instigated BEFORE the spark
fires - generally from a hot spot in the cyl. This can be a sharp
valve edge, glowing carbon, overheated spark plug, etc.

THAT is not detonation, and higher octane fuel will NOT prevent, or
even reduce it.

Detonation is the "explosion" of the destabilised end gasses, usually
farthest from the spark plug, in static pockets, due to high heat and
pressure causing the hydrocarbons to dis-associate.

Octane rating indicates the ability to resist this spontaneous,
uncontrolled burning after ignition has occurred., and a faster
burning fuel is less likely to detonate than a slow burning fuel
(natural octane, I like to call it) This is also why detonation
GENERALLY occurs at lower speeds and under high load, not at higher
engine speeds.

Detonation can CAUSE pre-ignition, but is not detonation.
Detonation can also CAUSE pre-ignition. If cyl head temperature
increases and exhaust gas temperature drops, that is the surest sigh
that detonation has occured,

How, or why, you may well ask?

When detonation accurs, it disturbs the layer of air directly against
the surface of the combustion chamber, and "scrubs" it off. This layer
acts as an insulator, preventing the total heat of combustion from
being transfereed to the cyl head and piston. Whenit is disturbed,
much of the heat of the exhaust is absorbed bu the piston and cyl
head, reducing the exhaust gas temperature and raising the cyl head
temperature.

Now, when this happens, parts of the cyl head and/or piston, and/or
the spark plug, will overheat, and there becomes a high probability
that the fresh charge of air/fuel mix will ignite spontaneously before
the plug fires - classic pre-ignition.

If pre-ignition happens as a precursor to detonation, it is because
the spark, occuring too early in the cycle, causes cyl pressures to
increase MUCH higher than normal (expansion against a rising piston
instead of against a descending piston) and that pressure and heat
acts on the end gasses for a longer time, making the disassosiation
and detonation more likely.
Pre-ignition causes a normal, controlled conflargation in the cyl -
just at the wrong time. Gives you the same effect as "spark knock"
caused by over-advanced timing - which again is NOT detonation - but
can cause detonation.

Pre-ignition and "spark knock" can be hard on bearings and pistons -
causing causing cracked or broken pistons and/or pounded out bearings
and/or bent rods etc.

Detonation, on the other hand, causes burned pistons and/or metal
transfer to the spark plug, and/or cratered surfaces in the combustion
chamber (looks like small sharp bits have been pecking away at the
roof of the combustion chamber, or the top of the piston ) and
aluminum "spray" on the plug tip, and CAN cause fractured pistons,
damaged bearings, bent rods, etc along with the other signs of
detonation.

Detonation causes overheating as well as being excaberated by
overheating.

Pre-ignition is most often caused BY overheating.

Detonation as a precursor to pre-ignition is more common than the
other way, but both are possible.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-14 03:02:39 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Well-seasoned? To me that says old, and old gas is the stuff that
varnished up your carburetor...
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
If the first two are throwing you for a loop, push the mower out to
the side of the road now and put a sign on it that says "FREE." Then
hire your lawn mowed by a professional... It's not difficult to push
the "92" button on the gas pump, or to follow the directions on the
Sta-Bil bottle. You can buy Sta-Bil practically anywhere...
92 octane doesn't hurt. It doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt.
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine.
Wrong. Dead, completely wrong. Running High Octane gasoline in a low
compression engine that is not designed for it will cause excessive
carbon buildup which can lead to frozen and broken rings, cylinder
scoring. The carbon buildup can also lead to pre-ignition which can
trash the engine, too.

Your 4 decades didn't teach you much.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2009-11-14 06:14:12 UTC
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Post by s***@dog.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Well-seasoned? To me that says old, and old gas is the stuff that
varnished up your carburetor...
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
If the first two are throwing you for a loop, push the mower out to
the side of the road now and put a sign on it that says "FREE." Then
hire your lawn mowed by a professional... It's not difficult to push
the "92" button on the gas pump, or to follow the directions on the
Sta-Bil bottle. You can buy Sta-Bil practically anywhere...
92 octane doesn't hurt. It doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt.
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine.
Wrong. Dead, completely wrong. Running High Octane gasoline in a low
compression engine that is not designed for it will cause excessive
carbon buildup which can lead to frozen and broken rings, cylinder
scoring. The carbon buildup can also lead to pre-ignition which can
trash the engine, too.
Your 4 decades didn't teach you much.
Running too rich or too cold causes carbon build up. Running fuel with
too much lead causes lead buildup.
Running high OCTANE fuel causes NEITHER.

There is more MYTH surrounding fuel octane and the results of using
octane higher than recommended for an engine than just about any other
automotive or engine topic today.

Much of it is based on half-truths.
A continental 85 aircraft engine, for instance, was designed to run on
80/87 octane aviation fuel (White) which had virtually no lead. It is
no longer universally available, so users are forced to use either
100LL (Blue) or 100/130 (green) gas. The Lycoming O200 is another
example.
Using the highly leaded 100/130 will cause engine damage due to rapid
lead buildup - particularly on the valve stems. Using "blue" avgas,
100LL, is less problematic as it contains significantly less lead
(although still much higher than the old leaded super premium
automotive gas) and can be used on these older engines with some
caveats. Agressive leaning can be used to purge the lead, or certain
additives can be used to keep the lead from sticking and remove lead
that has accumulated (to a certain degree) Alcor TCP is one commonly
used additive for this purpose. TBO on these engines when run on the
highly leaded fuels is generally lower than it would be running
80/87, and Mogas STCs are available for many engines/planes to allow
the use of 87-92 (minimum) octane unleaded automotive fuel - with NO
ETHANOL. This is becoming more commonly available at many airports.

This is the basis for the MYTH that high octane fuel causes build-up
problems and engine damage.
s***@dog.com
2009-11-14 11:39:06 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by s***@dog.com
Post by m***@rochester.rr.com
Post by Doug
OK, I've spend some bucks to get my Murray carb cleaned out, and I'm
told that I can avoid that problem (though it's taken ten years to
happen ...) in the future by using appropriate, well seasoned gas.
Well-seasoned? To me that says old, and old gas is the stuff that
varnished up your carburetor...
Post by Doug
I'm told (1) to use Sta-Bil or equivalent in my gas, (2) I really
should use 92 octane -- the "good stuff", and (3) I was told
separately to throw in some "lead substitute" as well.
So, what's the real deal here? The stabilizer is, I know, to keep old
gas from gunking up the engine, but what about the others? I need a
gasoline recipe for low maintenance and reliable service. I don't
recall the Murray instructions saying anything about all this stuff.
If the first two are throwing you for a loop, push the mower out to
the side of the road now and put a sign on it that says "FREE." Then
hire your lawn mowed by a professional... It's not difficult to push
the "92" button on the gas pump, or to follow the directions on the
Sta-Bil bottle. You can buy Sta-Bil practically anywhere...
92 octane doesn't hurt. It doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt.
It most definitely hurts, and can lead to an expensive rebuild.
Well, I have several (4) decades of experience as a mechanic that
re-enforces what I have been taught - high octane fuel will NOT damage
an engine.
Wrong. Dead, completely wrong. Running High Octane gasoline in a low
compression engine that is not designed for it will cause excessive
carbon buildup which can lead to frozen and broken rings, cylinder
scoring. The carbon buildup can also lead to pre-ignition which can
trash the engine, too.
Your 4 decades didn't teach you much.
Running too rich or too cold causes carbon build up. Running fuel with
too much lead causes lead buildup.
Running high OCTANE fuel causes NEITHER.
octane = burn retardant
it slows the bang down for a more even cooler burn
thats how higher octane 'cures' pinging - by burning cooler and calmer

High Octane in a low compression engine results in cooler operation
which promotes carbon buildup. You just said so yourself.
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