Discussion:
Do the Toyota Camry headlight polishers actually work well?
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Danny D.
2017-07-17 00:07:29 UTC
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Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/

While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html

Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
a***@att.net
2017-07-17 00:16:01 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
yea, they work for a little while. Then it's back to cloudy again.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 00:31:32 UTC
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Post by a***@att.net
Post by Danny D.
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
yea, they work for a little while. Then it's back to cloudy again.
Thanks for the reply on practicality of the headlight
deoxidizers/polishers.

How long? 1 Year? 3 months?

I saw that in the referenced articles where there were two types:
- liquid that de'oxidizes (whatever that means, in reality, chemically)
- abrasive (from 2000 grit to 1000 grit) that polishes the surface

Are you speaking of both types?
Why not just put a "wax" on top after polishing?

Some said the wax protects them from yellowing again.
Others say that if such a wax existed, Toyota would have used it.
Frank
2017-07-17 00:40:23 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
Problem is not just oxidation but erosion by particulates like sand.
You can polish back with tooth paste but the kit might contain an
ingredient that also makes the lens scratch resistant. I know of
commercial acrylic materials that do this and I suspect some lens
manufactures use them and some don't.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 01:09:11 UTC
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Post by Frank
Problem is not just oxidation but erosion by particulates like sand.
I read all the pages I referenced where I find it hard to believe the
lenses were 'sandblasted'. These look "foggy" and "yellowed" and "cloudy"
but they're not sandblasted, and, for passenger vehicles in suburbia, I
can't fathom the 'erosion' argument.

Of course, in farm country of the dust bowl, I can see that, but then the
paint would be just as eroded, and maybe even more, which is not the case.

So I think this is only "sun" erosion, whether that's a chemical change in
the plastic (oxidation?) or if it's a physical effect (UV damage) I don't
know.
Post by Frank
You can polish back with tooth paste but the kit might contain an
ingredient that also makes the lens scratch resistant.
The argument I saw essentially suggested "waxing" the lenses to protect
them from future sun damage, which makes sense only if the wax actually
works, since this is a see-through surface.

I don't see why anyone would want "scratch resistance" in a headlight which
isn't exposed to scratching in normal use (dust bowl in Kansas might be
different but this is suburbia).
Post by Frank
I know of
commercial acrylic materials that do this and I suspect some lens
manufactures use them and some don't.
Here's my gut feeling (which can be completely wrong - so that's why I
ask):

1. I don't think it's sandblasting that did it - I think it was the sun.
2. I don't know if it's a physical change or a chemical change (or both).
3. I suspect if there was a "sealant", Toyota would have used it.
4. I suspect, as stated, polishing is the way to go (but I'm unsure).
5. I don't know if liquid "de-oxidizers" (whatever that means) work.

My leaning is toward a 1000 to 2000 grit wet abrasive plus wax when done,
but I don't know how long it will last nor how good it can get yet.
Ed Pawlowski
2017-07-17 01:52:59 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Post by Frank
Problem is not just oxidation but erosion by particulates like sand.
I read all the pages I referenced where I find it hard to believe the
lenses were 'sandblasted'. These look "foggy" and "yellowed" and "cloudy"
but they're not sandblasted, and, for passenger vehicles in suburbia, I
can't fathom the 'erosion' argument.
That would depends on where suburbia is. In the snowbelt, the roads are
salted and sanded and that can have an effect. Obviously that is only a
prtion of the problem but look at windshields after 60,000 miles.
Post by Danny D.
So I think this is only "sun" erosion, whether that's a chemical change in
the plastic (oxidation?) or if it's a physical effect (UV damage) I don't
know.
I'd bet on UV. It is not kind to plastics.
Post by Danny D.
I don't see why anyone would want "scratch resistance" in a headlight which
isn't exposed to scratching in normal use (dust bowl in Kansas might be
different but this is suburbia).
So you drive under 25 mph on perfectly clean roads. No bugs, no grit.
Post by Danny D.
Here's my gut feeling (which can be completely wrong - so that's why I
1. I don't think it's sandblasting that did it - I think it was the sun.
2. I don't know if it's a physical change or a chemical change (or both).
3. I suspect if there was a "sealant", Toyota would have used it.
4. I suspect, as stated, polishing is the way to go (but I'm unsure).
5. I don't know if liquid "de-oxidizers" (whatever that means) work.
1. Mostly sun but could be pitting too
2. I'd think both
3. Agree, unless it wears off over time
4. Agree.
5. Never heard of them
Post by Danny D.
My leaning is toward a 1000 to 2000 grit wet abrasive plus wax when done,
but I don't know how long it will last nor how good it can get yet.
I'd guess "good enough" and a few years.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 02:27:13 UTC
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Post by Ed Pawlowski
That would depends on where suburbia is. In the snowbelt, the roads are
salted and sanded and that can have an effect. Obviously that is only a
prtion of the problem but look at windshields after 60,000 miles.
Califonria suburbia.
The environment doesn't get any easier than California, except for the
full-time sun - there's almost no dirt, grit, salt, or cold to worry about.
Post by Ed Pawlowski
I'd bet on UV. It is not kind to plastics.
I'd bet on the California UV also, as the plastic is "foggy".
Frank
2017-07-17 18:17:33 UTC
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Post by Ed Pawlowski
That would depends on where suburbia is. In the snowbelt, the roads
are salted and sanded and that can have an effect. Obviously that is
only a prtion of the problem but look at windshields after 60,000 miles.
Califonria suburbia. The environment doesn't get any easier than
California, except for the
full-time sun - there's almost no dirt, grit, salt, or cold to worry about.
Post by Ed Pawlowski
I'd bet on UV. It is not kind to plastics.
I'd bet on the California UV also, as the plastic is "foggy".
There is always grit to worry about on the road.
I know the formula used for scratch resistant plastic but cannot divulge
it. It would basically be applied like a wax. That's why it may be in
a lens refinish kit but I do not know for sure. These finishes are also
used on plastic eyeglass lens which easily scratch. Composition I had
seen was for acrylic sheets.

Both acrylic and polycarbonate have good outdoor resistance but both are
much softer than glass and easily scratched and dulled. Years ago I had
a watch with plastic lens that I occasionally restored clarity with
tooth paste. Toothpaste contains particulate that will not scratch teeth
but is a mistake to use on plastic dentures as it could wear them. I
have an old dental bridge that once had a plastic coating. Now years
later after years of brushing it is gone and all metal.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 18:46:36 UTC
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Post by Frank
There is always grit to worry about on the road.
I've ridden a motorcycle in my youth for tens of thousands of miles, so,
I'm aware of what happens when you drive behind almost any dump truck.

I also own a sand blasting kit, so, I'm aware of the power of sand
blasting.

Still, my gut feeling (but no science yet) tells me that these lenses are
yellowed from sunlight alone, and not from being sandblasted. I suspect if
I left a car in the sun and never drove it, that the lenses would still
yellow.

I'm not saying that sand blasting can't happen - I'm just intimating
(without hard science) that it's not happening. I could be wrong. (That's
why I have my huckleberry friends here to advise me.)
Post by Frank
I know the formula used for scratch resistant plastic but cannot divulge
it. It would basically be applied like a wax. That's why it may be in
a lens refinish kit but I do not know for sure. These finishes are also
used on plastic eyeglass lens which easily scratch. Composition I had
seen was for acrylic sheets.
The BlueMagic MSDS says "acrylic copolymer" as an tiny percent ingredient.
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/blue_magic/products/101/headlight_lens_restorer/
It also lists Neodol, Argilla, and Pluronic F, none of which sound familiar
to me so I'll need to look them up but they're in tiny percentages also.
Post by Frank
Both acrylic and polycarbonate have good outdoor resistance but both are
much softer than glass and easily scratched and dulled. Years ago I had
a watch with plastic lens that I occasionally restored clarity with
tooth paste. Toothpaste contains particulate that will not scratch teeth
but is a mistake to use on plastic dentures as it could wear them. I
have an old dental bridge that once had a plastic coating. Now years
later after years of brushing it is gone and all metal.
I think everything "gritty" will be harder than the plastic that is used on
those headlight lenses. I'm thinking the Bentonite Clay that a well driller
gave me is the right size (it's a powder) but if I can get a hold of
aluminum oxide powder, that would be a good second bet.

The toothpaste grit is often silicon dioxide (sand) but they used those
blue plastic beads for a while (I hope they stopped that by now).

The trick, of course, is to get the right grit.
The good news is that the worst thing that happens is we ruin an already
ruined headlight - so luckily experimentation is not risky.
Ed Pawlowski
2017-07-17 00:56:27 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
Nothing will make them as good as new. My neighbor used a kit on his
kid's car. Based on his results I'd try it. Much better than the dull
they were, but not brand new. I don't know what brand he ised
Danny D.
2017-07-17 01:10:48 UTC
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Post by Ed Pawlowski
Nothing will make them as good as new.
That seems like pragmatic advice.
The news ones aren't all that expensive either.
But to a kid they are.
Post by Ed Pawlowski
My neighbor used a kit on his kid's car. Based on his results I'd try it.
Thanks. It is, after all, only elbow grease and toothpaste, and a wax on
the plastic when done.
Post by Ed Pawlowski
Much better than the dull they were, but not brand new.
I don't know what brand he ised
Thanks for that assessment.
Vic Smith
2017-07-17 01:31:57 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.
Stormin' Norman
2017-07-17 01:39:32 UTC
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On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:31:57 -0500, Vic Smith
Post by Vic Smith
Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.
This product?

http://amzn.to/2utIFqd


Did you also use the sealer?

http://amzn.to/2utBzSp
Danny D.
2017-07-17 02:02:58 UTC
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Post by Stormin' Norman
This product?
http://amzn.to/2utIFqd
Did you also use the sealer?
http://amzn.to/2utBzSp
Blue Magic (restorer/sealer) versus something from "3M"...

While the net contains anything you want it to contain, it's worth reading
this article of a guy who used the blue magic "restorer" solution.
http://productreviewratings.com/2009/04/blue-magic-headlight-restorer/
"Based on my own results, I cannot recommend blue magic as a way
to completely restore fogged or scratched headlights. Everyone¢s
headlights are different, so I cannot say for sure that the product
won¢t work for some people. However, based on the time I spent with
and without a polishing drill, and comparing the results to the turtle
wax, this product was not worth the $7 bucks it cost me."
He concludes:
"The 3M Headlight Lens Restoration System requires a little extra
elbow grease and cash, but it is the only way you can be sure to
get those headlights looking clean and brand spanking new again!"

Looking up the 3M product...
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/516179O/3m-headlight-lens-restoration-system-detailed-instruct-for-use.pdf

3M 39008 Headlight Lens Restoration System
https://www.amazon.com/3M-39008-Headlight-Restoration-System/dp/B001AIZ5HY

There seem to be 9 different 3M "kits" according to the 3M site:
http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Headlight-Restoration-Kit

The MSDS is a multi-part MSDS due to the multiple components in the kit.
http://images.myautoproducts.com/images/Product_Media/MSDS/3M/3M-39008_MSDS.pdf
3M (TM) Headlight Lens Restoration System, PN 39008

3M(TM) Headlight Lens Polish PN 39005
* WATER 7732- 8-5 30 - 60%
* HYDROTREATED LIGHT PETROLEUM DISTILLATES 64742-47-8 10 - 30%
* QUARTZ SILICA 14808-60-7 10 - 30%
* KAOLINITE 1318-74-7 3 - 7%
* ASSOCIATED MINERALS Mixture 1 - 5%
* OLEIC ACID 112-80-1 1 - 5%
* SOLVENT-REFINED HEAVY PARAFFINIC PETROLEUM DISTILLATES 64741-88-4 1 - 5%
* MINERAL OIL 64741-89-5 0.5 - 1.5%
* GLYCERIN 56-81-5 0.5 - 1.5%
* POLY(OXYETHYLENE)SORBITAN MONOSTEARATE 9005-67-8 0.1 - 1.0%
Vic Smith
2017-07-17 09:09:49 UTC
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Post by Stormin' Norman
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:31:57 -0500, Vic Smith
Post by Vic Smith
Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.
This product?
http://amzn.to/2utIFqd
Yes.
Post by Stormin' Norman
Did you also use the sealer?
http://amzn.to/2utBzSp
No.
The lenses were still looking good a couple years later.
The cars were 16 and 10 years old when I used it in 2011.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 01:42:20 UTC
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Post by Vic Smith
You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.
Thanks for that specific pointer to "Blue Magic".

A quick search shows "Blue Magic" seems to be a line of "things" but
specifically two related things:

1. Blue Magic 725CD-06 Headlight Lens Restorer - 8 oz
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Magic-725CD-06-Headlight-Restorer/dp/B001PH0WUU

2. Blue Magic 730-6 Headlight Lens Sealer - 8 oz.
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Magic-730-6-Headlight-Sealer/dp/B0051PJWQW

A. Here is the Blue Magic "restorer" MSDS:
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/blue_magic/products/101/headlight_lens_restorer/
Aluminium Oxide, Non-Fibrous (50 - 70%)
Distillates, Hydrotreated Light (5 - 10%)
Ammonium Hydroxide, Buffer Solution (1 - 5%)
Neodol 23-6.5E (1 - 5%) <==== what is that?
Argilla (1 - 5%) <==== what is that?
Pluronic F 98 (1 - 5%) <==== what is that?
Acrylates Copolymer (<1%) <=== hmmmm... what is this?
CI 77007 (<1%) <===== CI?

B. Here is the Blue Magic "sealer" MSDS:
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/blue_magic/products/238/headlight_lens_sealer/
Hydrotreated Light Distillate (75.0 ¡V 85.0%)
Polydimethylsiloxane (18.0 ¡V 28.0 %) <== ?

I have some homework to do but thanks for the pointer since this "Blue
Magic" "sealer" and "restorer" seem to be ubiquitous based on the result of
a quick search.
Frank
2017-07-17 18:42:33 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
CI 77007
I looked over what you posted and you have a mixture of abrasives and
surfactants and a bluish coloring agent.

Blue tint is often added to plastics to make them look less yellow but
does not improve brightness. Laundry detergents often contain bluing.

The polydimethylsiloxane might improve scratch resistance. It is also
water repellent.

I'm a retired chemist but still do consulting and write a lot of MSDS's,
now just called Safety Data Sheets, SDS's, meeting Globally Harmonized
System requirements.

It is not necessary to divulge all ingredients except those mandated by
the EPA but all hazards must be disclosed. The Blue Magic SDS discloses
all ingredients and hazards but is outdated and not quite GHS compliant.
It is not particularly hazardous and probably does not require the new
hazard symbols.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 20:26:00 UTC
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Post by Frank
I looked over what you posted and you have a mixture of abrasives and
surfactants and a bluish coloring agent.
Blue tint is often added to plastics to make them look less yellow but
does not improve brightness. Laundry detergents often contain bluing.
The polydimethylsiloxane might improve scratch resistance. It is also
water repellent.
Thanks for looking over the chemistry of the "blue magic" ingredients of
the lens restorer and protective seal.

I, for one, do not believe in "magic" elixers, so, I suspect they all have
essentially the same ingredients so looking at the Blue Magic is probably
almost as good as looking at any other.

While I had never heard of these ingredients below, and while they're in
minute quantities (hence, they may not be meaningful), I did look them up
so I write a summary for the rest of the team to benefit from.

CI 77007 seems to be a deep blue pigment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CI_77007
http://cosmetics.specialchem.com/inci/ci-77007

Pluronic F seems to have a bunch of numbers after the F, as shown here
https://worldaccount.basf.com/wa/NAFTA~en_US/Catalog/ChemicalsNAFTA/pi/BASF/Brand/pluronic
where the "Pluronic" is a registered name indicated by "(R)".
[quote=BASF]
The Pluronic® types are block copolymers based on ethylene oxide
and propylene oxide. They can function as antifoaming agents,
wetting agents, dispersants, thickeners, and emulsifiers."

Argilla seems to be my old friend Bentonite, of which I have plenty that a
well driller gave me years ago for poison oak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentone_34
"CAS No. 1340-68-7(Bentone)" with synonyms of
arcilla blanca; argilla alba as described here
http://www.guidechem.com/cas-134/1340-68-7.html
http://www.lookchem.com/cas-134/1340-68-7.html

The Argilla (aka Bentone) is used to thicken greases:
http://www.ikvlubricants.com/grease-bentone-thickened-greases-gels-pastes

Neodol seems to be an ALCOHOL ETHOXYLATE surfactant/emulsifier whose
precise mix of chemicals depends on the number after the word.
http://s08.static-shell.com/content/dam/shell-new/local/business/chemicals/downloads/pdf/products-services/datasheets/chem-datasheet-neodol-25-5.pdf
Like the "Pluronic F" stuff, there are a billion mixes made by Shell.
http://www.surfachem.com/neodol-91-6
where it's described as a short-chain (C9-C11) alcohol with 6 moles of
ethylene oxide.

So those 4 mystery ingredients (admittedly in small quantities) are
1. blue pigment (CI 77007)
2. surfactants/emulsifiers (Pluronic F & Neodol)
3. thickening agent (Argilla)
Scott Dorsey
2017-07-17 01:57:51 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
No, but what do you want for five bucks?
Buy whatever kit your FLAPS has on sale and try it. It'll be a big
improvement.

Will it be any bigger than Ajax cleanser slurry on a quarter sheet sander pad?
Dunno, but for five bucks I'd try it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
My 2 Cents
2017-07-17 01:58:29 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
50 bucks for both, new with bulbs. I know what I'd do. Be sure to
check the shipping costs. Since the kid is college bound give him/her
the tools and see if they can change them without help.
http://www.discountbodyparts.com/catalog/feeds/Replacement/Headlight/SET-20-5219-00.html?dbpcid=gglpla
Danny D.
2017-07-17 02:28:43 UTC
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Post by My 2 Cents
50 bucks for both, new with bulbs. I know what I'd do. Be sure to
check the shipping costs. Since the kid is college bound give him/her
the tools and see if they can change them without help.
http://www.discountbodyparts.com/catalog/feeds/Replacement/Headlight/SET-20-5219-00.html?dbpcid=gglpla
The web site has the right price $50 (PN SET-20-5219-00) but it doesn't say
it fits the 4-cyl "LE" Camry.

I called 1-888-346-5511x1 and gave them the part number above and they said
that's $25 each lens for a Corolla. A Camry PN is T100121 (passenger side)
$63.44 each lens + shipping + tax.

Still, less than 100 bucks (taxed/shipped, but I'm guessing) is not too bad
for an auto part - but a bit high for a kid with no job other than to be a
full-time student who is a junior and away from home for the first time,
getting settled, 200 miles from her parents.
Ed Pawlowski
2017-07-17 12:46:02 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Post by My 2 Cents
50 bucks for both, new with bulbs. I know what I'd do. Be sure
to check the shipping costs. Since the kid is college bound give
him/her the tools and see if they can change them without help.
http://www.discountbodyparts.com/catalog/feeds/Replacement/Headlight/SET-20-5219-00.html?dbpcid=gglpla
The web site has the right price $50 (PN SET-20-5219-00) but it doesn't say
it fits the 4-cyl "LE" Camry.
I called 1-888-346-5511x1 and gave them the part number above and they said
that's $25 each lens for a Corolla. A Camry PN is T100121 (passenger side)
$63.44 each lens + shipping + tax.
Still, less than 100 bucks (taxed/shipped, but I'm guessing) is not too bad
for an auto part - but a bit high for a kid with no job other than to be a
full-time student who is a junior and away from home for the first time,
getting settled, 200 miles from her parents.
Its a matter of perspective. As a kid in school, I'd go with a
polish/restoration kit As an adult with a decent job I'd go with new
lenses. As an adult with a very good income I'd opt for a new car.
Retired
2017-07-17 02:04:45 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing
chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing
chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
I used this kit from Sylvania on my 2008 Ford. It uses 3 grades of
sandpaper and 2 liquids. Kit has everything you need.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/sylvania-headlight-restoration-kit-38771/10027404-P?zoneAssigned=1&prefZC=06032

There is a YouTube video showing how to use it.


It's only been 4 months now but the my lights look great.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2017-07-17 02:49:42 UTC
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Post by Retired
Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
I used this kit from Sylvania on my 2008 Ford. It uses 3 grades of
sandpaper and 2 liquids. Kit has everything you need.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/sylvania-headlight-restoration-kit-38771/10027404-P?zoneAssigned=1&prefZC=06032
There is a YouTube video showing how to use it.
http://youtu.be/KWjSd__zidE
It's only been 4 months now but the my lights look great.
I've used several with excellent but short term results. They look
like new for about 5 months-8 months, then go bad again. The sealer
makes 'em last a little longer
Danny D.
2017-07-17 03:30:33 UTC
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Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Retired
It's only been 4 months now but the my lights look great.
I've used several with excellent but short term results. They look
like new for about 5 months-8 months, then go bad again. The sealer
makes 'em last a little longer
After having looked at the ingredients, all contain a grit, particularly
"aluminum oxide".

Anyone know where to get a free handful of "aluminum oxide" grit?

Given the worst thing that can happen is we ruin what is already ruined, it
may be worth experimenting with some of that bentonite clay I got from a
well driller for use in the heavy poison oak.

I'm thinking a few sheets of 1000 grit to 2000 grit wet sandpaper.
Plus a handful of free bentonite well-driller's clay.
Plus free college-aged elbow grease and free water from the hose.

The "sealer" seems to be Polydimethylsiloxane (aka dimethicone).
It's in shampoo/conditioner to make hair "slippery and shiny".
And in Rain-X. Silly putty too. Silicone grease. All says Wikipedia anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydimethylsiloxane

So maybe a handful of bentonite (which I have) or aluminum oxide (if I can
find it) plus water and fine-grit sandpaper will polish - and - maybe hair
conditioner or Rain-X will seal it?

Where can we get a handful of free "aluminum oxide" & "dimethicone"?
Bob F
2017-07-17 15:38:30 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Where can we get a handful of free "aluminum oxide" & "dimethicone"?
Try polishing the lights with some toothpaste or BonAmi polishing cleanser.
Thomas
2017-07-17 15:06:22 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
Try DEET bugspray and newspaper.
Oren
2017-07-17 15:11:15 UTC
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On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:07:29 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
Danny,

My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.

I didn't have to do any work :-|

Sam's Club Headlight Renewal:


Danny D.
2017-07-17 15:16:15 UTC
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Post by Oren
Danny,
My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.
I didn't have to do any work :-|
http://youtu.be/F9RyTa2fVJg
You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!
Oren
2017-07-17 16:15:23 UTC
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On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:16:15 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
Post by Oren
Danny,
My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.
I didn't have to do any work :-|
http://youtu.be/F9RyTa2fVJg
You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!
IIRC, Sam's adds a clear UV protection coating after the finish. Not
sure any DIY kits have that included. Sam's did the work, a warranty
and I stayed lazy :-)
Retired
2017-07-17 16:39:00 UTC
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Post by Oren
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:16:15 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
Post by Oren
Danny,
My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.
I didn't have to do any work :-|
http://youtu.be/F9RyTa2fVJg
You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!
IIRC, Sam's adds a clear UV protection coating after the finish. *Not
sure any DIY kits have that included*. Sam's did the work, a warranty
and I stayed lazy :-)
$30 to have it done is nice. However the Sylvania $20 kit does include
UV block.

Kit contents:

1 oz. Surface Activator
1/2 oz. Clarifying Compound
1 oz. UV Block Clear Coat
Waterproof Premium Sandpaper (400, 1000 & 2000 grit)
Applicator and Polish Cloths
Vinyl Glove
Oren
2017-07-17 17:40:37 UTC
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Post by Retired
Post by Oren
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:16:15 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
Post by Oren
Danny,
My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.
I didn't have to do any work :-|
http://youtu.be/F9RyTa2fVJg
You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!
IIRC, Sam's adds a clear UV protection coating after the finish. *Not
sure any DIY kits have that included*. Sam's did the work, a warranty
and I stayed lazy :-)
$30 to have it done is nice. However the Sylvania $20 kit does include
UV block.
1 oz. Surface Activator
1/2 oz. Clarifying Compound
1 oz. UV Block Clear Coat
Waterproof Premium Sandpaper (400, 1000 & 2000 grit)
Applicator and Polish Cloths
Vinyl Glove
Yeah butt, DIY kits don't give a warranty for labor. Sam's gives five
year warranty. Total $30 and no labor at my house.
Scott Dorsey
2017-07-17 18:02:27 UTC
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Post by Oren
Yeah butt, DIY kits don't give a warranty for labor. Sam's gives five
year warranty. Total $30 and no labor at my house.
Wait a minute, this is your kid's car?

Sheesh, buy the $5 kit and make HIM do the work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Danny D.
2017-07-17 18:15:29 UTC
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Post by Scott Dorsey
Wait a minute, this is your kid's car?
Sheesh, buy the $5 kit and make HIM do the work.
It's not as simple as that.
It's not my kid and she's a few hundred miles away.
I'm just doing the research because they TRUST me to know the answers.

For example, I taught them that cheap acetone is better than nail polish,
and they've been using that ever since.

I told them that vinegar works wonders in the kitchen (for getting rid of
scale in pots and glasses) and they love the simplicity.

I taught them that mayonaise in a jar is horrid stuff compared to what
their grandma makes with just an egg, oil, and lemon juice. Likewise with
whipped cream that is made from real cream.

It's similar to the fact that they've never once bought salad dressing in a
jar (where they pluck the tomato and parsley and basil themselves from
outside) nor have they ever eaten pasta without sauce from the same
ingredients from home.

To me, they know that to buy a headlight restoration kit would be like to
buy a microwavable TV dinner or ready-made popcorn or frozen orange juice
or any number of barely edible things which have no business being sold to
human beings who can think about what it is that they are consuming.

So for me, the fun is in figuring out what the "magic" is, whereas in most
people, it seems, they drink the jimjones punch and just buy the "magic
solution" without even thinking about what is inside that they already
might have at home.

Mayonaise is a good example. Ice cream also. If you ever made it (and I'm
sure most of you have), you realize they're just basic ingredients - but if
you look on the label of the store-bought stuff - you'd be horrified
instantly.

I'm no "organic" evangelist (my tomatoes outside fertilized with coyote
poop are just as organic as anything bought for double the price in the
fancy grocery store).

I just believe in figuring out the "mystery" in marvel mystery oil (which
is just light sewing machine oil - which is itself just a light petroleum
distillate - which is pretty much in almost everything).

This kid is taught that gasoline is a commodity (tier 1 at Costco being
good enough) and that motor oil, despite the outlandish claims, is motor
oil (SN being good enough and API viscosities being essentially meaningless
in California - and yes - I know what they indicate).

Too many people, I believe, think that our "consumer" society requires
these magical mystery claims when the polisher appears to be a fine grit
and a silicone protectant ... which is fine if that's the case ... but I'm
still working on what it is.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 18:27:49 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
This kid is taught that gasoline is a commodity (tier 1 at Costco being
good enough) and that motor oil, despite the outlandish claims, is motor
oil (SN being good enough and API viscosities being essentially meaningless
in California - and yes - I know what they indicate).
Ooops. I meant SAE viscosities are meaningless in practical terms where I
live, but you knew what I meant (API being for the SN or SM, which is good
enough for any kid's car).

My point is that it's worthwhile to figure out the "magic" in the
ingredients where basic chemistry is the rule, not the mystery.

To that end Sylvania sent the MSDF which is a bit cryptic:
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET #080513HRKUVBCC HRK UV BLock Clear Coat
Bottled By: Dvelup 888-350-2932
Stoddard Solvent CAS 8052-41-3
Stoddard Solvent CAS 64742-88-7
Where the MSDS says "This products formula is considered a trade secret,
the exact chemical names of the ingredient(s) and the percentages in which
they are combined will not appear in the body of this sheet. The exact
composition is available upon request to physicians, industrial hygienists
and other health professionals."

The "secret ingredients" are probably just dimethicone, but that's what
I'll try to find out.
Tekkie®
2017-07-17 19:23:17 UTC
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Danny D. posted for all of us...
Post by Danny D.
Ooops. I meant SAE viscosities are meaningless in practical terms where I
live, but you knew what I meant (API being for the SN or SM, which is good
enough for any kid's car).
My point is that it's worthwhile to figure out the "magic" in the
ingredients where basic chemistry is the rule, not the mystery.
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET #080513HRKUVBCC HRK UV BLock Clear Coat
Bottled By: Dvelup 888-350-2932
Stoddard Solvent CAS 8052-41-3
Stoddard Solvent CAS 64742-88-7
Where the MSDS says "This products formula is considered a trade secret,
the exact chemical names of the ingredient(s) and the percentages in which
they are combined will not appear in the body of this sheet. The exact
composition is available upon request to physicians, industrial hygienists
and other health professionals."
The "secret ingredients" are probably just dimethicone, but that's what
I'll try to find out.
The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did this
also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife wrecked the
car... Less work for mother...
--
Tekkie
Danny D.
2017-07-18 03:27:27 UTC
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Post by Tekkie®
The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did this
also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife wrecked the
car... Less work for mother...
Since it's such a common problem, do you think the original UV protectant
wasn't enough?
Ed Pawlowski
2017-07-18 12:24:50 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Post by Tekkie®
The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did
this also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife
wrecked the car... Less work for mother...
Since it's such a common problem, do you think the original UV protectant
wasn't enough?
My limited eperience is that UV protection wears out after while. I've
used various outdoor finishes with UV protection and after two years it
is still good aside from the uv.
m***@yahoo.com
2017-07-18 14:19:32 UTC
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Post by Ed Pawlowski
Post by Danny D.
Post by Tekkie®
The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did
this also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife
wrecked the car... Less work for mother...
Since it's such a common problem, do you think the original UV protectant
wasn't enough?
My limited eperience is that UV protection wears out after while. I've
used various outdoor finishes with UV protection and after two years it
is still good aside from the uv.
question...
does it make sense to apply the UV protection coating to newish lenses before they get really yellow? and to reapply it periodically so hopefully you won't have to polish them.


Also, from experience, do not press very hard on the front of older headlights, the plastic aiming parts inside are getting old and if you press hard enough they can break and then your lights will not be aimed correctly.

m
Tekkie®
2017-07-19 18:31:04 UTC
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***@yahoo.com posted for all of us...

In line answers
Post by m***@yahoo.com
question...
does it make sense to apply the UV protection coating to newish lenses before they get really yellow? and to reapply it periodically so hopefully you won't have to polish them.
No, the factory is better.
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Also, from experience, do not press very hard on the front of older headlights, the plastic aiming parts inside are getting old and if you press hard enough they can break and then your lights will not be aimed correctly.
Hope no one backs into your car.
--
Tekkie
Tekkie®
2017-07-19 18:28:53 UTC
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Danny D. posted for all of us...
Post by Danny D.
Post by Tekkie®
The original lenses had a UV protectant - I had a Toyota which did this
also. I took it to Sams & had it done. It lasted until my wife wrecked the
car... Less work for mother...
Since it's such a common problem, do you think the original UV protectant
wasn't enough?
I really had no valid comparison. The car was 13+ years old.
--
Tekkie
Danny D.
2017-07-17 18:03:24 UTC
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Post by Retired
$30 to have it done is nice. However the Sylvania $20 kit does include
UV block.
1 oz. Surface Activator
1/2 oz. Clarifying Compound
1 oz. UV Block Clear Coat
Waterproof Premium Sandpaper (400, 1000 & 2000 grit)
Applicator and Polish Cloths
Vinyl Glove
I like to know how things work, since there's usually no magic involved.
Looking up the Sylvania kit, is this the combination you are talking about?
http://www.osram-americas.com/en-us/products/automotive/Pages/headlight-restoration-kit.aspx

$18 SYLVANIA Headlight Restoration Kit
https://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-HRK-BX-SYLVANIA-Headlight-Restoration/dp/B00429NKWK

$12 SYLVANIA Headlight Restoration UV Block Clear Coat, 1 fl. oz.
https://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-HRK-BX-SYLVANIA-Headlight-Restoration/dp/B01KIVYE6G?th=1

It's a multipart where this has some of the permutations & combinations:
https://www.opticatonline.com/part/sylvania-uvbkit-headlight-restoration-kit

It seems (almost?) impossible to find the MSDS for this stuff online, so I
can't tell you what's in it yet. I have a call open to Sylvania at
1.800.729.3777 to ask them to email them to me though.

I realize I take a different approach than almost everyone here in that I
don't stay on the same well-worn trails that everyone else does. To me,
product solutions just commodities that are just basic chemicals.

The work is in finding out what the chemicals are, and in figuring out what
they do that matters - which is the fun part.

So far, it seems that the uv block is just simethicone (silicone) and the
restoration part is just aluminum oxide (grit) but that's only a basic
assumption based on the 3M results.

I'll let you know what Sylvania comes up with as their "magic" ingredients.
trader_4
2017-07-17 15:51:27 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
Why is that the standard? I haven't seen anyone claiming that they
will restore them to be indistinguishable from new. I used a kit,
I think it was 3M, worked great. It included an attachment for
a drill with pads. There was a huge improvement,
I was very happy, but no way I'd say they were indistinguishable from
new. It lasts several years, but obviously the process continues.
Same thing will happen with new ones. The choice is up to you, but
I'm sure you're not going to find new ones for $10 which is about
the cost of the polishing kit. And the lenses were poly or similar,
not glass (does anyone still use that?), so the part about it not
working on anything but glass is BS.
Danny D.
2017-07-17 20:22:08 UTC
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Post by trader_4
Why is that the standard?
That's a fair question. AFAIK, there are only three options:
1. Leave them yellowed (free)
2. Buy new headlight lenses (~$120 for the pair at discount)
3. Polish them up (~$30 for the pair at Sams Club or ~$30 for chemicals)
Post by trader_4
I haven't seen anyone claiming that they
will restore them to be indistinguishable from new.
Maybe I had simply *assumed* that they would be indistinguishable from new.
Can someone who has done it tell us how they compared to brand new?
Post by trader_4
I used a kit, I think it was 3M, worked great.
Three kits have been mentioned most here:
1. 3M
2. Sylvania
3. Blue Magic

Most kits seem to have two parts:
A. The stripper
B. The sealer
Post by trader_4
It included an attachment for
a drill with pads. There was a huge improvement,
I was very happy, but no way I'd say they were indistinguishable from
new.
This is good to know because it turns out that the original owner called
today when we asked about some of the paperwork saying they had in their
garage a brand new unused driver side headlight lens, still in the box,
which they'd give the kid for free.

So now we have only one lens to "match" to the driver side.
Post by trader_4
It lasts several years, but obviously the process continues.
There is an open question as to whether the erosion process is
*accelerated* by the polishing, or if it's the same process, but starting
fresh.
Post by trader_4
Same thing will happen with new ones. The choice is up to you, but
I'm sure you're not going to find new ones for $10 which is about
the cost of the polishing kit.
Most kits seemed to come out at around $30 for the two components.
But I didn't look all that hard yet on price 'cuz I'm just looking at
chemicals right now.
Post by trader_4
And the lenses were poly or similar,
not glass (does anyone still use that?), so the part about it not
working on anything but glass is BS.
I agree. Glass isn't the problem here, at least not with the Camry.
trader_4
2017-07-18 00:43:45 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Post by trader_4
Why is that the standard?
1. Leave them yellowed (free)
2. Buy new headlight lenses (~$120 for the pair at discount)
Since you like to micro analyze, are those OEM lenses from the
dealer? Ones that are OEM quality from one of the OEM suppliers?
Ones that are from some aftermarket company and supply chain that
at least has some credibility? Or ones on Ebay claiming to be of
some of the above pedigree? Or Chinese crap from China?
Post by Danny D.
3. Polish them up (~$30 for the pair at Sams Club or ~$30 for chemicals)
I did mine for ~$10 to $15, think it was the 3M kit, Walmart.
Post by Danny D.
Post by trader_4
I haven't seen anyone claiming that they
will restore them to be indistinguishable from new.
Maybe I had simply *assumed* that they would be indistinguishable from new.
Can someone who has done it tell us how they compared to brand new?
They come out looking good, clear, well worth it, but no way you'd think they
were new ones.
Post by Danny D.
Post by trader_4
I used a kit, I think it was 3M, worked great.
1. 3M
2. Sylvania
3. Blue Magic
A. The stripper
B. The sealer
Post by trader_4
It included an attachment for
a drill with pads. There was a huge improvement,
I was very happy, but no way I'd say they were indistinguishable from
new.
This is good to know because it turns out that the original owner called
today when we asked about some of the paperwork saying they had in their
garage a brand new unused driver side headlight lens, still in the box,
which they'd give the kid for free.
So now we have only one lens to "match" to the driver side.
Well, that changes the equation.
Post by Danny D.
Post by trader_4
It lasts several years, but obviously the process continues.
There is an open question as to whether the erosion process is
*accelerated* by the polishing, or if it's the same process, but starting
fresh.
Who cares? They look good again for at least several years, at least
mine did. How long is your kid going to have the car? Plus I would
think you could do it a second time.
Danny D.
2017-07-18 03:27:28 UTC
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Post by trader_4
Since you like to micro analyze, are those OEM lenses from the
dealer?
I have no idea.
Post by trader_4
I did mine for ~$10 to $15, think it was the 3M kit, Walmart.
Lots of votes for the 3M kit over the Sylvania and Blue Magic.
Post by trader_4
They come out looking good, clear, well worth it, but no way you'd think they
were new ones.
Thanks. That makes a lot of sense.
Post by trader_4
Who cares? They look good again for at least several years, at least
mine did. How long is your kid going to have the car? Plus I would
think you could do it a second time.
It's not my kid, but we're a close-knit family (Italians & Jews mostly,
with a few Arabs sprinkled about just to keep the conversation salty).

She's going to be a junior, having just graduated from a 2-year school
(they don't even give AA degrees anymore, I'm told) so it's her first year
at a 4-year college, where she's going to live off campus so she needs a
car.

How long will she own it?
Dunno. I owned my first car for about a decade and it was a decade old when
I got it, so, I assume she'll own it for a decade. Besides, my first car
was a Chrysler and hers is a Toyota. Two different beasts in terms of
longevity.

Anyway, I think we have pretty good answers to the questions.
a. It won't look like new but it will look pretty good
b. You have to sand and seal (not just sand)
c. The 3M kit gets the most votes (Sylvania & Blue Magic in second)
d. The main ingredient is grit with clearcoat being the sealer
e. Don't use electric tools - just use elbow grease
Steve W.
2017-07-17 20:26:14 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).
The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-foggy-headlights-at-home/
While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com
Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-ABOUT-HEADLIGHT-CLEANERS-/10000000000945494/g.html
Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?
If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?
Easy to repair,
Get a 3M headlight kit
Either remove the light units or tape around them to protect the body paint.
Wet down and wash the grit off the lights. Then use the coarse paper and
keep the lens wet and sand until the yellow and scratches are gone.
Switch to the finer paper and sand until the larger scratches are gone,
switch to the last grit and keep going until you get to the polishing step.

NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
shop give them a spritz).

This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic. The 2
part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
can burn the surface of the light.
--
Steve W.
Danny D.
2017-07-18 03:27:30 UTC
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Post by Steve W.
NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
shop give them a spritz).
Thanks for that suggestion as this is the first suggestion, I think, for an
automotive "2-part clear" as the protective coating.

Searching, is this what you mean?
http://www.automotivetouchup.com/spray_paint_clearcoat.aspx

Or maybe this?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/duplicolor-clear-top-coat-bcl0125/99984738-P

Or, maybe more likely this?
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/urethane_clearcoat.aspx
Post by Steve W.
This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic.
Does the irony of that statement ring true for you as it does for me?
Post by Steve W.
The 2
part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
can burn the surface of the light.
A lot of people are voting for the 3M kit components.
Fewer for Sylvania and Blue Magic.
Steve W.
2017-07-18 16:47:31 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
Post by Steve W.
NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
shop give them a spritz).
Thanks for that suggestion as this is the first suggestion, I think, for an
automotive "2-part clear" as the protective coating.
Searching, is this what you mean?
http://www.automotivetouchup.com/spray_paint_clearcoat.aspx
Or maybe this?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/duplicolor-clear-top-coat-bcl0125/99984738-P
Or, maybe more likely this?
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/urethane_clearcoat.aspx
Post by Steve W.
This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic.
Does the irony of that statement ring true for you as it does for me?
Post by Steve W.
The 2
part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
can burn the surface of the light.
A lot of people are voting for the 3M kit components.
Fewer for Sylvania and Blue Magic.
The 3M kit works very well. NONE of the chemical only kit's work. I've
done hundreds of headlights using the sand, polish, clear coat method.

The UV, age and other chemicals just destroy the lights. The plastics
have gotten better but some brands just seem to turn to crap faster.

https://repaintsupply.com/spraymax-3680061-2k-urethane-clear-coat-aerosol-p3685.html
is a true 2 part clear in a spray can, if you don't have a spray gun.

or if you have a spray gun and know how to use it
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/urethane_clearcoat.aspx
would work as well.
--
Steve W.
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