Discussion:
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
Add Reply
burfordTjustice
2016-12-26 11:29:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
How women's liberation began with Jesus

http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
T
2016-12-27 19:57:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,

Indeed!

To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.

And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?

And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?

-T
burfordTjustice
2016-12-27 20:46:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 11:57:22 -0800
Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
Most certainly not Islam...liberal women
and gays seem to miss the points of Islam...
Dev Null
2016-12-27 22:12:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
If God wanted man to listen to post-menopausal women,
why does he take a man's high frequency hearing as he ages?
T
2016-12-28 00:12:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dev Null
Post by T
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
If God wanted man to listen to post-menopausal women,
why does he take a man's high frequency hearing as he ages?
Tell your wife that she should yell at you when you
can't hear her. Wait. Forget I said that.

:'(
rbowman
2016-12-28 03:05:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
The Christian community organizers knew what they were doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism

Mithra was very popular in the legions but it was a boys only club. Mom
was left home with too much time on her hands and was recruited by the
Christians. When the old man got home she explained to him how it was
going to be if he ever expected to get a piece.

It always worked that way. Æthelberht was the first Christian English
king. He converted right after the little French hottie he married
explained the facts of life. Next thing you know, you've got Augustine
running around converting people.
rbowman
2016-12-28 03:14:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam


Many of the Protestant sects don't buy into the Catholic Mariology.
T
2016-12-28 03:39:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Many of the Protestant sects don't buy into the Catholic Mariology.
Hi Rbowman,

"Protestant" correctly do not think that Mary is a god. This comes
from some of the inappropriate displays of statuary in Catholic
churches: they "seem" to place Mary and Jesus on an
equal footing. They "seem" to do this other places as well.

But, try as you may, you will be hard pressed to find a Catholic
that thinks Mary is a god and is anything other than a beloved
Saint. It is a massive misunderstanding on the part of
Protestants. They really do need to speak to the Catholics
and find out what Catholics actually believe. (And don't
worry, their are enough out weird things for Protestants to be
scandalized over.)

But they calm down when reminded of what the Bible
says about Mary:

For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden
[Mary]: for, behold, from henceforth all generations
shall call me blessed.
-- Luke 1:48KJV

Beloved Mary has an enormous heart and will pray for anyone,
including me.

And all Christians need to understand that we are not each others
enemies. The enemy is Satin.

-T
rbowman
2016-12-28 05:58:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
But, try as you may, you will be hard pressed to find a Catholic
that thinks Mary is a god and is anything other than a beloved
Saint. It is a massive misunderstanding on the part of
Protestants. They really do need to speak to the Catholics
and find out what Catholics actually believe. (And don't
worry, their are enough out weird things for Protestants to be
scandalized over.)
Some denominations have liberalized but the more Calvinistic sects have
very little imagination. They are very close to the Muslims in their
attitude to religious art. In fact, they parse the ten commandments to
make sure to come down heavy on the graven image clause. Even the saint
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas.

Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe. In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.

I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
T
2016-12-30 01:53:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by T
But, try as you may, you will be hard pressed to find a Catholic
that thinks Mary is a god and is anything other than a beloved
Saint. It is a massive misunderstanding on the part of
Protestants. They really do need to speak to the Catholics
and find out what Catholics actually believe. (And don't
worry, their are enough out weird things for Protestants to be
scandalized over.)
Some denominations have liberalized but the more Calvinistic sects have
very little imagination.
It is a sadness that they dusted off one of the old heresies.
And apparently also a sadness that they have never been to a football
game: John 3-16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only
Son, that *whoever* believes in him shall not perish but
have eternal life.

"whoever" really means "whoever". Not just those preselected.
Post by rbowman
They are very close to the Muslims in their
attitude to religious art.
They don't let the Bible get in their way either:

Ark of the Covenant

“They shall construct an ark of acacia wood ... You shall
make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work
[l]at the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub
[m]at one end and one cherub [n]at the other end; you
shall make the cherubim of one piece with the mercy seat
at its two ends. 20 The cherubim shall have their wings
spread upward, covering the mercy seat with their wings
and [o]facing one another; the faces of the cherubim
are to be turned toward the mercy sea
--Exodus 25:10-22

Hmmm. Statues. Hmmmm. The first commandment must mean
no art depicting Bad Guys. Hmmmmmmmm.
Post by rbowman
In fact, they parse the ten commandments to
make sure to come down heavy on the graven image clause. Even the saint
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.

They love their wives and husbands, even love their dogs,
and they get all apoplectic over loving someone that has
gone before.

And again, don't let the Bible get in their way.
Post by rbowman
Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe.
It is sad that it seems to be a tenant of their faith
what others believe. Ask them? Not a chance!
Post by rbowman
In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly.
Post by rbowman
I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
rbowman
2016-12-30 02:21:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
T
2016-12-30 02:33:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,

It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.

I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.

I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).

In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...

:-)

-T
rbowman
2016-12-30 05:05:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
T
2016-12-30 05:34:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
Hi R,

I was pretty young. I only remember it was grand.

There are still Catholics out there that practice the traditional mass:

http://catholiclatinmass.org/traditional-latin-mass.html


This is an example of what the Ancient Church does (no one
got us beat on grandness):



Okay, I cheated a bit. The angles taught the Russians to Sing.

-T
rbowman
2016-12-30 14:51:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
http://catholiclatinmass.org/traditional-latin-mass.html
There was a priest from Helena that would come over every couple of
weeks but they dropped it. Now you have to go over there. iirc, he was
in the Society of Saint Pius V. SSPV broke away from SSPX since they
thought SSPX was too liberal. SSPV were definite sedevacantists, meaning
they thought the current pope was going so far against the doctrine that
he wasn't really a pope, hence the See was vacant.

Pius IX warned against modernism in his Syllabus of Errors

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

and held Vatican I to get the church back on track. Pius X tried to
continue his work but the modernists kept chipping away until there is
not much left.
abelard
2016-12-30 15:35:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by T
http://catholiclatinmass.org/traditional-latin-mass.html
There was a priest from Helena that would come over every couple of
weeks but they dropped it. Now you have to go over there. iirc, he was
in the Society of Saint Pius V. SSPV broke away from SSPX since they
thought SSPX was too liberal. SSPV were definite sedevacantists, meaning
they thought the current pope was going so far against the doctrine that
he wasn't really a pope, hence the See was vacant.
another lot are now fussing about francis
Post by rbowman
Pius IX warned against modernism in his Syllabus of Errors
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
and held Vatican I to get the church back on track. Pius X tried to
continue his work but the modernists kept chipping away until there is
not much left.
--
www.abelard.org
rbowman
2016-12-30 23:57:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
another lot are now fussing about francis
I'm sure. I think they had high hopes for Benedict that never worked out.
Ophelia
2016-12-30 10:15:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'

==================

We had 3 masses on Sundays but only the big one had the choir.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
rbowman
2016-12-30 15:08:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
==================
We had 3 masses on Sundays but only the big one had the choir.
We had 5 starting at 0600, but only the finale at 1100 or 1200 was the
full high Mass with entertainment and a chance for the socialites to
show off their finery. My father and I preferred the short, sweet,
workingman's version at 0900. Got the job done and then we could go
fishing or hunting.
Ophelia
2016-12-30 16:49:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
==================
We had 3 masses on Sundays but only the big one had the choir.
We had 5 starting at 0600, but only the finale at 1100 or 1200 was the
full high Mass with entertainment and a chance for the socialites to
show off their finery. My father and I preferred the short, sweet,
workingman's version at 0900. Got the job done and then we could go
fishing or hunting.

================

So would I if I went now:) I used to sing High Mass at 11 am. When I was a
very young it was always 10 am Mass with the rest of the kids from our
school with the nuns in attendance.

I was in the church choir from the age of about 11 so I missed the kid's
mass then.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
rbowman
2016-12-30 23:55:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I was in the church choir from the age of about 11 so I missed the kid's
mass then.
Nobody ever invited me to take part in singing activities :) The concept
used in Protestant churches where the general public launches into 'What
A Friend We Have In Jesus' or something is utterly alien to me. While
I'm fond of the Schubert version of 'Ave Maria', I'm not going to try it
on my own. I ain't Perry Como.


Ophelia
2016-12-31 10:38:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I was in the church choir from the age of about 11 so I missed the kid's
mass then.
Nobody ever invited me to take part in singing activities :) The concept
used in Protestant churches where the general public launches into 'What
A Friend We Have In Jesus' or something is utterly alien to me. While
I'm fond of the Schubert version of 'Ave Maria', I'm not going to try it
on my own. I ain't Perry Como.

http://youtu.be/ldbvaX6VINo

==============

LOL Each to his own:)))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ophelia
2016-12-30 10:15:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,

It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.

I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.

I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).

In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...

:-)

-T

===============

Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Bod
2016-12-30 10:22:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
Ophelia
2016-12-30 11:07:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.

====================

I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Bod
2016-12-30 12:20:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
====================
I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
In what way do you mean, Ophelia?
Ophelia
2016-12-30 12:28:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
====================
I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
In what way do you mean, Ophelia?

===============

Will you expect it to be in Latin with responses? I would really miss
that:)

Apart from that, I doubt it would be as we knew it:)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Bod
2016-12-30 15:03:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
====================
I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
In what way do you mean, Ophelia?
===============
Will you expect it to be in Latin with responses? I would really miss
that:)
Apart from that, I doubt it would be as we knew it:)
Post by Bod
Ah, thanks.
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-30 21:52:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
--
Intercourse prevents divorce.
abelard
2016-12-30 22:55:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:52:43 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
it was a rock band?
--
www.abelard.org
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-30 23:11:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:52:43 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
it was a rock band?
It was a rock band?
--
Her hair glistened in the rain like nose hair after a sneeze.
The Peeler
2016-12-30 23:37:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 23:11:47 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by abelard
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
it was a rock band?
It was a rock band?
Wasn't it, Birdbrain?
--
More of Birdbrain Macaw's strange "thinking".
"Why not just shoot on sight? Bears are dangerous and should be treated
the same as a Muslim with a bomb. Destroy it"
MID: <***@red.lan>
Bod
2016-12-31 09:59:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
it was a rock band?
That came later, I was in several groups for 26 years.
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-31 18:50:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by abelard
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
it was a rock band?
That came later, I was in several groups for 26 years.
I just can't see you singing in a choir.
--
Her face was a perfect oval, like a circle that had its two other sides gently compressed by a Thigh Master.
The Peeler
2016-12-31 19:23:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 18:50:20 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by abelard
it was a rock band?
That came later, I was in several groups for 26 years.
I just can't see you singing in a choir.
Yeah, but you are an idiot, you know!
--
Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) lunacy at work:
"If anything, the older you get, the more of a tragedy it is - a dead 1 year
old can be re-made. A dead 10 year old has lived 10 years to prepare for
adult life, and wasted time and money being educated."
MID: <***@red.lan>
The Peeler
2016-12-30 23:09:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:52:43 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
That's nothing compared to picturing you talking to your ONLY social
contacts in real life, your parrots, Birdbrain! LOL
--
More of Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) strange world:
"The guy I bought my female Scarlet Macaw from had an African Grey who
called each of his 7 dogs by name as they entered the house. To me the dogs
looked identical!"
MID: <***@red.lan>
T
2016-12-31 02:58:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
Does holy water still burn holes in your cloths? Embarrassing
when that happens! :'(
Uncle Monster
2016-12-30 22:55:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I used to do work for different churches not because I shared their faith but because the congregation were nice people. The churches I helped out were small and not wealthy but the people there would help others however they could. I don't care for the mega churches because the members of those institutions have a holier than thou attitude and I know some good people who have left those congregations because of such behavior. The megachurches with their millions and lavish facilities are a real turn off to me and a lot of other people. The old country church with its simple structure and a congregation of wonderful, generous people who will help out their fellow man are what I think of as REAL Christians. The megachurch is a country club. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Wicked Monster
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-30 23:12:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction o=
f
Post by Bod
Post by T
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic sec=
ular
Post by Bod
Post by T
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad th=
e
Post by Bod
Post by T
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The las=
t Mass
Post by Bod
Post by T
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian l=
ove
Post by Bod
Post by T
feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church ch=
oir
Post by Bod
Post by T
until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told thi=
ngs are
Post by Bod
Post by T
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches hav=
e a
Post by Bod
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I used to do work for different churches not because I shared their fa=
ith but because the congregation were nice people. The churches I helped=
out were small and not wealthy but the people there would help others h=
owever they could. I don't care for the mega churches because the member=
s of those institutions have a holier than thou attitude and I know some=
good people who have left those congregations because of such behavior.=
The megachurches with their millions and lavish facilities are a real t=
urn off to me and a lot of other people. The old country church with its=
simple structure and a congregation of wonderful, generous people who w=
ill help out their fellow man are what I think of as REAL Christians. Th=
e megachurch is a country club. =E3=83=BD(=E3=83=85)=E3=83=8E
[8~{} Uncle Wicked Monster
We have no megachurches in the UK.

-- =

Eighty percent of married men cheat in America. The rest cheat in Europ=
e.
The Peeler
2016-12-30 23:38:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 23:12:24 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Uncle Monster
Post by Bod
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I used to do work for different churches not because I shared their faith but because the congregation were nice people. The churches I helped out were small and not wealthy but the people there would help others however they could. I don't care for the mega churches because the members of those institutions have a holier than thou attitude and I know some good people who have left those congregations because of such behavior. The megachurches with their millions and lavish facilities are a real turn off to me and a lot of other people. The old country church with its simple structure and a congregation of wonderful, generous people who will help out their fellow man are what I think of as REAL Christians. The megachurch is a country club. ヽ(ヅ)ノ
[8~{} Uncle Wicked Monster
We have no megachurches in the UK.
But mega assholes like you, certainly!
--
Birdbrain Macaw about women:
"I don't want one. Easy enough to get one if I wanted one."
MID: <***@red.lan>
T
2016-12-31 03:00:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Uncle Monster
I used to do work for different churches not because I shared their faith but because the congregation were nice people. The churches I helped out were small and not wealthy but the people there would help others however they could. I don't care for the mega churches because the members of those institutions have a holier than thou attitude and I know some good people who have left those congregations because of such behavior. The megachurches with their millions and lavish facilities are a real turn off to me and a lot of other people. The old country church with its simple structure and a congregation of wonderful, generous people who will help out their fellow man are what I think of as REAL Christians. The megachurch is a country club. ヽ(ヅ)ノ
I have noticed the same thing.
Bod
2016-12-31 09:56:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Uncle Monster
Post by Bod
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I used to do work for different churches not because I shared their faith but because the congregation were nice people. The churches I helped out were small and not wealthy but the people there would help others however they could. I don't care for the mega churches because the members of those institutions have a holier than thou attitude and I know some good people who have left those congregations because of such behavior. The megachurches with their millions and lavish facilities are a real turn off to me and a lot of other people. The old country church with its simple structure and a congregation of wonderful, generous people who will help out their fellow man are what I think of as REAL Christians. The megachurch is a country club. ヽ(ヅ)ノ
[8~{} Uncle Wicked Monster
There's a lot of truth in what you are saying.
Cindy Hamilton
2016-12-30 12:27:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.

I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!

Cindy Hamilton
rbowman
2016-12-30 15:03:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cindy Hamilton
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.
I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!
Well, that beats Miley Cyrus covers I guess. In the '60s they would try
a hootenanny mass every now and then to try to be popular. Fortunately
the young priest in my parish was more into Gregorian chants.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2016-12-30 19:59:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:27:42 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
Post by Cindy Hamilton
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.
I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!
Cindy Hamilton
So much of the current crop of "worship music" is a descendent of
either folk or rock, with 3 chords and 10 words repeated 5 times. - or
something similar. The rest is un-singable and hard to listen to.
The church I attend still sings some of the "old standards" in 4 part
harmony with excellent piano accompniment - with sometimes a violin or
flute, or brass added in. (Neither catholic, nor protestant - google
it)
Percival P. Cassidy
2016-12-30 20:26:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Cindy Hamilton
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.
I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!
Cindy Hamilton
So much of the current crop of "worship music" is a descendent of
either folk or rock, with 3 chords and 10 words repeated 5 times. - or
something similar. The rest is un-singable and hard to listen to.
The church I attend still sings some of the "old standards" in 4 part
harmony with excellent piano accompniment - with sometimes a violin or
flute, or brass added in. (Neither catholic, nor protestant - google
it)
"Seven-Eleven" songs: seven words repeated eleven times. Or is it the
other way round? The last time I had to endure such, it was because we
went to church with the family members with whom we were staying -- and
they admitted that they went to that particular church not for the
"worship" but because of the friends they had made there.

Perce
Joe
2016-12-30 14:05:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
--
Joe
Ophelia
2016-12-30 14:32:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...

Joe

====

I am sure it does date me, but I am retired now:)

What? No hats for the ladies?? Oh dear :)

It does sound very different. Hmm not sure I like the sound of that. i
think I will give midnight mass a miss:))

One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day. I've had
never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?

Thanks for the information though. It is very interesting :)

If there are more etc etc and you can be bothered, I would love to hear of
them:)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Joe
2016-12-30 14:54:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.
--
Joe
Ophelia
2016-12-30 16:43:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.

Joe

===

Ok, we never had that. I visited my old church when I was in the area a few
years ago. It all looked the same except the choir loft was blocked off as
were some of the confessionals.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=st+charles+borromeo+church+hull&biw=1366&bih=666&tbm=isch&imgil=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%253BAAAAAAAAAAABAM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FSt_Charles_Borromeo%25252C_Hull&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%252CAAAAAAAAAAABAM%252C_&usg=__sq7MdfnzkIQs5B5fkJTfgsnyOE4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFjabyrJzRAhVPdlAKHYcYDk8QuqIBCGswCg&imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM#imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM%3A

Just noticed when I searched that it has been awarded Grade 1 listing:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ophelia
2016-12-30 17:30:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
"Ophelia" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.

Joe

===

Ok, we never had that. I visited my old church when I was in the area a few
years ago. It all looked the same except the choir loft was blocked off as
were some of the confessionals.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=st+charles+borromeo+church+hull&biw=1366&bih=666&tbm=isch&imgil=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%253BAAAAAAAAAAABAM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FSt_Charles_Borromeo%25252C_Hull&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%252CAAAAAAAAAAABAM%252C_&usg=__sq7MdfnzkIQs5B5fkJTfgsnyOE4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFjabyrJzRAhVPdlAKHYcYDk8QuqIBCGswCg&imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM#imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM%3A

Just noticed when I searched that it has been awarded Grade 1 listing:))

====

Hey, just noticed the corner of the choir loft and organ:)))

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-19c-interior-of-the-church-of-st-charles-borromeo-kingston-upon-76304748.html
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ophelia
2016-12-30 17:37:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
"Ophelia" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

"Ophelia" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.

Joe

===

Ok, we never had that. I visited my old church when I was in the area a few
years ago. It all looked the same except the choir loft was blocked off as
were some of the confessionals.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=st+charles+borromeo+church+hull&biw=1366&bih=666&tbm=isch&imgil=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%253BAAAAAAAAAAABAM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FSt_Charles_Borromeo%25252C_Hull&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%252CAAAAAAAAAAABAM%252C_&usg=__sq7MdfnzkIQs5B5fkJTfgsnyOE4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFjabyrJzRAhVPdlAKHYcYDk8QuqIBCGswCg&imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM#imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM%3A

Just noticed when I searched that it has been awarded Grade 1 listing:))

====

Hey, just noticed the corner of the choir loft and organ:)))

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-19c-interior-of-the-church-of-st-charles-borromeo-kingston-upon-76304748.html

=========

Loading Image...

LOL sorry, this is taking me back soooooo many years:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Cindy Hamilton
2016-12-30 16:41:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
Joe
====
I am sure it does date me, but I am retired now:)
What? No hats for the ladies?? Oh dear :)
The last time I went to a Mass that wasn't a funeral or wedding,
it was t-shirts and shorts. IIRC it was Pentecost.

Cindy Hamilton
rbowman
2016-12-30 15:05:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
Do they hand out bread like some sort of buffet or do the people still
go up to the rail to receive the Host from the priest?
abelard
2016-12-30 15:31:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
the *only* place i know in france where they bother customers
about hats is a prod church at biarritz(from the brit tourists)
i've visited 100s of such places in britain and france...

the puritanical mood continues
--
www.abelard.org
The Todal
2016-12-30 15:43:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
What a shame. I suppose now it's politically correct to speak to a
congregation in a language which they can actually understand, and to
allow women to sit near men. But it's bound to stir up lustful thoughts,
and men will inevitably start thinking about having sex with women
rather than in the conventional way with choirboys.
rbowman
2016-12-31 00:05:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
What a shame. I suppose now it's politically correct to speak to a
congregation in a language which they can actually understand, and to
allow women to sit near men. But it's bound to stir up lustful thoughts,
and men will inevitably start thinking about having sex with women
rather than in the conventional way with choirboys.
As a teenager I never ever had lustful thoughts as I knelt there staring
at the ass of the girl in the pew in front of me. I think the parts of
the Mass where you were supposed to stand was just to check for
unsightly bulges in trousers...
Percival P. Cassidy
2016-12-30 15:43:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
Post by Ophelia
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Most Roman Catholic services are no longer in Latin, but there are
parishes (some of them -- but not all -- counted as "in schism") that
continue to use the old Latin Mass. But the main issue is not the
language (Latin vs. English or German or Spanish or whatever) in which
things are said, but what is said, which is now simpler and, some say,
closer to Protestant worship.

Perce
abelard
2016-12-30 15:47:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:43:11 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Post by Ophelia
Post by Ophelia
I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
Post by Ophelia
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Most Roman Catholic services are no longer in Latin, but there are
parishes (some of them -- but not all -- counted as "in schism") that
continue to use the old Latin Mass. But the main issue is not the
language (Latin vs. English or German or Spanish or whatever) in which
things are said, but what is said, which is now simpler and, some say,
closer to Protestant worship.
i think some places allow a choice, that is a latin go once on
sunday... but i've not checked
--
www.abelard.org
Ophelia
2016-12-30 16:51:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
Post by Ophelia
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Most Roman Catholic services are no longer in Latin, but there are
parishes (some of them -- but not all -- counted as "in schism") that
continue to use the old Latin Mass. But the main issue is not the
language (Latin vs. English or German or Spanish or whatever) in which
things are said, but what is said, which is now simpler and, some say,
closer to Protestant worship.

Perce

========================

Good grief:(
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
T
2016-12-31 02:56:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Latib is very rare
T
2016-12-31 02:57:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Ophelia
I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Latib is very rare
Latin
Ophelia
2016-12-31 10:39:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Ophelia
I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Latib is very rare
Latin

============

<g> Don't worry, I got it:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Muggles
2016-12-30 05:59:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against
the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have
passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor
when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that
says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa.
--
Maggie
T
2016-12-30 08:15:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against
the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed
away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it
comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa.
Hi Maggie,

Do you believe in the Trinity?

The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single
word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the
same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean
Creed.

If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not
"sola scriptura" (the Bible Only). And you are trusting
the authority of the Ancient Church in its teachings.
Just as you are trusting their authority over what went
in the Bible.

Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This
one is though.

We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking
others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven
or on Earth. The first time a saint prays for you, you
can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in
heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint
Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13).

I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And
I have a personal relationship with one who chose me.
He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets
really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation.

And no saint is more approachable than Jesus. My
personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we
pray for others, not just ourselves.

Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in
heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We".
We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church
Triumphant.

Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)

Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.

Love never ends.

Yours in Christ,
--Todd

And another angel came, and stood before the altar,
having a golden censer; and there was given to him
much incense, that he should offer of the prayers
of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before
the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of
the prayers of the saints ascended up before God
from the hand of the angel. (Rev 8: 3-4)
Muggles
2016-12-30 19:27:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Muggles
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people
who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is
supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to
that side... I haven't come across scripture that
says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or
vice versa.
Hi Maggie,
Hi Todd.. :)
Post by T
Do you believe in the Trinity?
I do.
Post by T
The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one
single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came
out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the
Bible and the Nicaean Creed.
"Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the
father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the
word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in
the Bible.
Post by T
If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not
"sola scriptura" (the Bible Only).
On the contrary... a word that describes something in the Bible
doesn't negate "solar scriptura".
Post by T
And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient
Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their
authority over what went in the Bible.
Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This
one is though.
If it's not in the Bible there's a reason it's not there.
Post by T
We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking
others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven
or on Earth.
There are no Bible scriptures that teach praying to anyone in heaven.
Christ alone is our intercessor in heaven.
Post by T
The first time a saint prays for you, you
can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in
heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint
Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13).
I'm not being critical of you.. OK? I've never understood praying to
saints. It's not in the Bible. Why pray to Christ's servant when you
can talk directly with the master himself?
Post by T
I personally have had several Saints pray for me.
And I have a personal relationship with one who
chose me.
Doesn't that put Christ lower on the priority list? Doesn't it say
that no-one is to come before Christ? I really don't understand.
Post by T
He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets
really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation.
Christ should be first in the conversation, not second.
Post by T
And no saint is more approachable than Jesus.
Jesus isn't a saint... he's the Christ- son of the living God. To
call him a saint removes his standing as king. I can't see how
calling Jesus a saint glorifies him?
Post by T
My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we
pray for others, not just ourselves.
I've no problem with people on earth praying for others here on
earth. :-)
Post by T
Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in
heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We".
We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church
Triumphant.
But, there is no biblical reference that supports or encouraged
prayer communication between those in heaven and earth.
Post by T
Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)
Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.
Saints on earth are different from those in heaven.
Post by T
Love never ends.
:)
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
--
Maggie
Stormin' Norman
2016-12-30 19:37:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.
Saints on earth are different from those in heaven.
Post by T
Love never ends.
:)
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales in public. ;-)
Muggles
2016-12-30 19:55:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman
Post by Stormin' Norman
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales
in public. ;-)
Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy
tales.
--
Maggie
Stormin' Norman
2016-12-30 20:08:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman
Post by Stormin' Norman
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales
in public. ;-)
Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy
tales.
Actually, I hope that one day you will realize they are fairy tales.
But, I have not seen evidence that you have the ability to evaluate
any issues using logic and with objectivity.
T
2016-12-31 03:06:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman
Post by Stormin' Norman
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales
in public. ;-)
Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy tales.
He has not clue. Debating. Oh Brother
Muggles
2016-12-31 04:32:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Muggles
Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize
it's not fairy tales.
He has not clue. Debating. Oh Brother
:)
--
Maggie
T
2016-12-31 04:41:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Post by Muggles
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people
who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is
supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to
that side... I haven't come across scripture that
says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or
vice versa.
Hi Maggie,
Hi Todd.. :)
Post by T
Do you believe in the Trinity?
I do.
Post by T
The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one
single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came
out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the
Bible and the Nicaean Creed.
"Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the
father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the
word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the
Bible.
Post by T
If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not
"sola scriptura" (the Bible Only).
On the contrary... a word that describes something in the Bible doesn't
negate "solar scriptura".
So it is okay to believe in a word that doesn't
appear in the Bible? You are confusing me.

The references you are referring to about the trinity
are also in the old testament. And I assure your that
Jews do not believe in the trinity.

The Nicaean Council was the one how cemented it in place
the concept of the Trinity so there would be no
misunderstandings, especially with all the heresies
running about.

The Bible did not exist for three centuries. We are also
told by the Bible to hold to the traditions the founders
(Apostles) taught us:

Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the
traditions which ye have been taught, whether
by word [i.e. oral tradition] or our epistle
-- II Thessalonians 2:15

I praise you brethren, that you remember me in
all things and hold fast to the traditions [paradoseis]
just as I delivered [paredoka, a verbal form of
paradosis] them to you"
--First Corinthians 11:2

If "solar scriptura" was correct, then we wouldn't have folks
going off on such tangents when they read the Bible.

"Let's all throw burning coals on our adversaries heads and
not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven. Or
Teacher for that matter."

Think anything got interpenetrated there? That is why we
need the traditions spoken of in the Bible (i.e the
authority of the Church) to make sure we know what things
are suppose to mean.

By "Authority of the Church", I mean the Ancient Church
(A.k.a the Orthodox Church), not the Catholic Church.
I mean the seven holy councils.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient
Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their
authority over what went in the Bible.
Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This
one is though.
If it's not in the Bible there's a reason it's not there.
Very true. So you are relying on the Church as to
what did and did not get into the Bible? The Bible
did not come first.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking
others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven
or on Earth.
There are no Bible scriptures that teach praying to anyone in heaven.
Depends on what your mean by praying. Am I praying to
you by asking you for your prayers? We "communicate"
with the Saints through the power of the Holy Spirit
as they do with us. We are very well aware that the saints
are no god. They are loved ones, not gods.
Post by Muggles
Christ alone is our intercessor in heaven.
Everyone has to go thought Christ. True. Doesn't
matter whether you are on heaven or earth.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
The first time a saint prays for you, you
can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in
heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint
Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13).
I'm not being critical of you.. OK? I've never understood praying to
saints. It's not in the Bible.
Actually, I did give you references. You just did not like
them. Also you are disregarding II Thessalonians 2:15
about traditions.
Post by Muggles
Why pray to Christ's servant when you can
talk directly with the master himself?
Absolutely. No saint is more approachable than
God. Sains pray for you to God, just as you would.

Why again would you ask anyone for their prayers?
Why would I ask you for your prayers? Why not
just go to the man himself?

The answer is that praying for someone else is a
selfless act and God loves that. Jesus is the
God of Love.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And I have a
personal relationship with one who
chose me.
Doesn't that put Christ lower on the priority list?
Absolutely not!
Post by Muggles
Doesn't it say that
no-one is to come before Christ?
Correct. If I ask you for your prayers, am
I putting you before God?
Post by Muggles
I really don't understand.
I don't understand why this is an issue to you.

Think of the saints as loved ones. They don't
forget about you. When they pray for you, they
pray to the same Jesus you pray to.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets
really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation.
Christ should be first in the conversation, not second.
When others ask you for their prayers, are they putting
Christ second? Remember that Christ listens in on all
conversations with the saints. He knows what you are
asking them.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
And no saint is more approachable than Jesus.
Jesus isn't a saint...
Jesus is God. Creator of Heaven and Earth. Where did
you get the idea I though he was a saint?
Post by Muggles
he's the Christ- son of the living God. To call
him a saint removes his standing as king. I can't see how calling
Jesus a saint glorifies him?
Who called him a saint?
Post by Muggles
Post by T
My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we
pray for others, not just ourselves.
I've no problem with people on earth praying for others here
on earth. :-)
Only not with loved ones in heaver? They can't pray for you?
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in
heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We".
We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church
Triumphant.
But, there is no biblical reference that supports or encouraged prayer
communication between those in heaven and earth.
Maybe you read "Our communion in prayer with the saints"
differently than I do?

Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)
Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.
Saints on earth are different from those in heaven.
If you mean live folks, there are no saints on earth.
Saintly people, yes. We are called to be saints, yes.
You are not a Saint until you pass on and get judged
by Jesus.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Love never ends.
:)
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
One of the reason I want to go to Heaven is because I want to
be with those loving people that have prayed for me. I don't
know exactly what Heaven is, but I do know God resides there and
there is a lot of love there.

Glory be to God!
-T
Muggles
2016-12-31 05:16:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Glory be to God!
This post is to long for me to respond sufficiently to every point of
discussion all at once. I'll try to respond later to individual
comments.
--
Maggie
Bod
2016-12-31 10:14:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Post by Muggles
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people
who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is
supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to
that side... I haven't come across scripture that
says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or
vice versa.
Hi Maggie,
Hi Todd.. :)
Post by T
Do you believe in the Trinity?
I do.
Post by T
The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one
single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came
out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the
Bible and the Nicaean Creed.
"Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the
father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the
word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the
Bible.
Post by T
If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not
"sola scriptura" (the Bible Only).
On the contrary... a word that describes something in the Bible doesn't
negate "solar scriptura".
So it is okay to believe in a word that doesn't
appear in the Bible? You are confusing me.
The references you are referring to about the trinity
are also in the old testament. And I assure your that
Jews do not believe in the trinity.
The Nicaean Council was the one how cemented it in place
the concept of the Trinity so there would be no
misunderstandings, especially with all the heresies
running about.
The Bible did not exist for three centuries. We are also
told by the Bible to hold to the traditions the founders
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the
traditions which ye have been taught, whether
by word [i.e. oral tradition] or our epistle
-- II Thessalonians 2:15
I praise you brethren, that you remember me in
all things and hold fast to the traditions [paradoseis]
just as I delivered [paredoka, a verbal form of
paradosis] them to you"
--First Corinthians 11:2
If "solar scriptura" was correct, then we wouldn't have folks
going off on such tangents when they read the Bible.
"Let's all throw burning coals on our adversaries heads and
not call anyone Father, except our father in heaven. Or
Teacher for that matter."
Think anything got interpenetrated there? That is why we
need the traditions spoken of in the Bible (i.e the
authority of the Church) to make sure we know what things
are suppose to mean.
By "Authority of the Church", I mean the Ancient Church
(A.k.a the Orthodox Church), not the Catholic Church.
I mean the seven holy councils.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient
Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their
authority over what went in the Bible.
Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This
one is though.
If it's not in the Bible there's a reason it's not there.
Very true. So you are relying on the Church as to
what did and did not get into the Bible? The Bible
did not come first.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking
others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven
or on Earth.
There are no Bible scriptures that teach praying to anyone in heaven.
Depends on what your mean by praying. Am I praying to
you by asking you for your prayers? We "communicate"
with the Saints through the power of the Holy Spirit
as they do with us. We are very well aware that the saints
are no god. They are loved ones, not gods.
Post by Muggles
Christ alone is our intercessor in heaven.
Everyone has to go thought Christ. True. Doesn't
matter whether you are on heaven or earth.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
The first time a saint prays for you, you
can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in
heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint
Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13).
I'm not being critical of you.. OK? I've never understood praying to
saints. It's not in the Bible.
Actually, I did give you references. You just did not like
them. Also you are disregarding II Thessalonians 2:15
about traditions.
Post by Muggles
Why pray to Christ's servant when you can
talk directly with the master himself?
Absolutely. No saint is more approachable than
God. Sains pray for you to God, just as you would.
Why again would you ask anyone for their prayers?
Why would I ask you for your prayers? Why not
just go to the man himself?
The answer is that praying for someone else is a
selfless act and God loves that. Jesus is the
God of Love.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And I have a
personal relationship with one who
chose me.
Doesn't that put Christ lower on the priority list?
Absolutely not!
Post by Muggles
Doesn't it say that
no-one is to come before Christ?
Correct. If I ask you for your prayers, am
I putting you before God?
Post by Muggles
I really don't understand.
I don't understand why this is an issue to you.
Think of the saints as loved ones. They don't
forget about you. When they pray for you, they
pray to the same Jesus you pray to.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets
really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation.
Christ should be first in the conversation, not second.
When others ask you for their prayers, are they putting
Christ second? Remember that Christ listens in on all
conversations with the saints. He knows what you are
asking them.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
And no saint is more approachable than Jesus.
Jesus isn't a saint...
Jesus is God. Creator of Heaven and Earth. Where did
you get the idea I though he was a saint?
Post by Muggles
he's the Christ- son of the living God. To call
him a saint removes his standing as king. I can't see how calling
Jesus a saint glorifies him?
Who called him a saint?
Post by Muggles
Post by T
My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we
pray for others, not just ourselves.
I've no problem with people on earth praying for others here
on earth. :-)
Only not with loved ones in heaver? They can't pray for you?
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in
heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We".
We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church
Triumphant.
But, there is no biblical reference that supports or encouraged prayer
communication between those in heaven and earth.
Maybe you read "Our communion in prayer with the saints"
differently than I do?
Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)
Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.
Saints on earth are different from those in heaven.
If you mean live folks, there are no saints on earth.
Saintly people, yes. We are called to be saints, yes.
You are not a Saint until you pass on and get judged
by Jesus.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Love never ends.
:)
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
One of the reason I want to go to Heaven is because I want to
be with those loving people that have prayed for me. I don't
know exactly what Heaven is, but I do know God resides there and
there is a lot of love there.
Glory be to God!
-T
You *hope* :-)
Percival P. Cassidy
2016-12-31 17:38:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Post by Muggles
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people
who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is
supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to
that side... I haven't come across scripture that
says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or
vice versa.
Hi Maggie,
Hi Todd.. :)
Post by T
Do you believe in the Trinity?
I do.
Post by T
The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one
single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came
out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the
Bible and the Nicaean Creed.
"Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the
father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the
word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in the
Bible.
But there were* (and still are**) bodies that call themselves
"Christian" and read the same Bible but deny the doctrine of the
Trinity: some see Father, Son and Holy Spirit as simply different names
for the same single "person"; others see them as time-differentiated
manifestations of God: formerly he was the Father, Jesus
revealed/manifested him as the Son, and now he is the Holy Spirit.

* The Nicene Creed was largely a response to the teachings of Arius, who
held that "the Son" is merely a created being -- the highest created
being, but nevertheless only a creation and not himself God. The
"Jehovah's Witnesses" are prominent modern heirs of Arius.

** The United Pentecostal Church is a contemporary non-Trinitarian
Protestant body.

Perce
rbowman
2016-12-30 14:54:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against
the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed
away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it
comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa.
Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The Protestants dumped
it from the canon when they found it inconvenient sort of like Luther
tried to get rid of James because James said faith without works was
useless. That went against sola fides.
Muggles
2016-12-30 19:32:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice
versa.
Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The
Protestants dumped it from the canon when they
found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get
rid of James because James said faith without
works was useless. That went against sola fides.
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
--
Maggie
rbowman
2016-12-31 00:23:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by rbowman
I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice
versa.
Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The
Protestants dumped it from the canon when they
found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get
rid of James because James said faith without
works was useless. That went against sola fides.
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
1 & 2 Maccabees certainly is in my bible right after Esther.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Bible
http://www.catholic.org/bible/books_bible.php

I can't help it if people like Luther and Calvin threw out the parts
they didn't like.
Muggles
2016-12-31 04:28:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by rbowman
Post by Muggles
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
1 & 2 Maccabees certainly is in my bible right after
Esther.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Bible
http://www.catholic.org/bible/books_bible.php
I'm not Catholic, so I don't use a Catholic version of the Bible.
Post by rbowman
I can't help it if people like Luther and Calvin threw
out the parts they didn't like.
--
Maggie
T
2016-12-31 04:53:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by rbowman
Post by Muggles
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
1 & 2 Maccabees certainly is in my bible right after
Esther.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Bible
http://www.catholic.org/bible/books_bible.php
I'm not Catholic, so I don't use a Catholic version of the Bible.
Post by rbowman
I can't help it if people like Luther and Calvin threw
out the parts they didn't like.
Our Western brothers and sisters in Christ do a pretty
good job of translating the Bible. If you ask for it,
you can get any of them with the entire Bible, with
all the books in it (Maccabees, etc.)
T
2016-12-31 03:05:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by rbowman
I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice
versa.
Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The
Protestants dumped it from the canon when they
found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get
rid of James because James said faith without
works was useless. That went against sola fides.
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
All the books of the Apocrypha were in the
dead sea scrolls (the Zealots, I do believe).

If you start throwing out books you don't like, then
you call in questions all the rest of them and the
authority the church had in the first place to
put them there.
Muggles
2016-12-31 04:31:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Muggles
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
All the books of the Apocrypha were in the
dead sea scrolls (the Zealots, I do believe).
They evidently aren't all in the Bible.
Post by T
If you start throwing out books you don't like, then
you call in questions all the rest of them and the
authority the church had in the first place to
put them there.
What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"?
--
Maggie
T
2016-12-31 05:01:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Post by Muggles
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
All the books of the Apocrypha were in the
dead sea scrolls (the Zealots, I do believe).
They evidently aren't all in the Bible.
Yes they are. Some of our western brother and sisters in Christ
tossed out books they did out like. It is a sadness.
Post by Muggles
Post by T
If you start throwing out books you don't like, then
you call in questions all the rest of them and the
authority the church had in the first place to
put them there.
What are you referring to when you say "the authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the First Council
of Nicaea (today it is called the Orthodox Church).

Specifically the authority over the bible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon

Three of the Councils great accomplishments were

1) the Nicaean creed

2) the doctrine of the trinity

3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)

A lot of stuff went on at that council
Muggles
2016-12-31 05:08:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things
as the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a
Catholic Bible.
--
Maggie
T
2016-12-31 05:20:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as
the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible.
I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for
the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own.

If you find something different, quote me the verse and the
edition of the Bible so I can see what is different.

It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled"
it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers
in the new testament were member of my church. We know
what is suppose to be in it.

By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation"
is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone;
that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is
"let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep
us out of trouble.

Glory be to God!
-T
Bod
2016-12-31 10:29:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as
the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible.
I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for
the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own.
If you find something different, quote me the verse and the
edition of the Bible so I can see what is different.
It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled"
it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers
in the new testament were member of my church. We know
what is suppose to be in it.
By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation"
is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone;
that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is
"let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep
us out of trouble.
Glory be to God!
-T
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.
Now WHY would he create something so evil?
If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to
your god and had a hand in creation.
Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will,
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?
If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-31 18:56:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as
the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible.
I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for
the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own.
If you find something different, quote me the verse and the
edition of the Bible so I can see what is different.
It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled"
it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers
in the new testament were member of my church. We know
what is suppose to be in it.
By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation"
is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone;
that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is
"let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep
us out of trouble.
Glory be to God!
-T
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.
Now WHY would he create something so evil?
If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to
your god and had a hand in creation.
Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will,
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?
If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
--
What does a married man say after sex?
Don't tell my wife.
The Peeler
2016-12-31 19:25:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 18:56:05 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.
Now WHY would he create something so evil?
If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to
your god and had a hand in creation.
Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will,
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?
If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
DEFINITELY quoteworthy, poor psychopath! <G>
--
Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic "mind" at work:
"Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil."
Message-ID: <***@red.lan>
Bod
2016-12-31 19:28:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as
the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible.
I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for
the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own.
If you find something different, quote me the verse and the
edition of the Bible so I can see what is different.
It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled"
it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers
in the new testament were member of my church. We know
what is suppose to be in it.
By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation"
is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone;
that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is
"let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep
us out of trouble.
Glory be to God!
-T
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.
Now WHY would he create something so evil?
If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to
your god and had a hand in creation.
Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will,
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?
If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
Post by Bod
Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel.
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-31 19:34:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_ca=
non
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by T
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same thin=
gs as
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Cathol=
ic
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Bible.
I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for
the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own.
If you find something different, quote me the verse and the
edition of the Bible so I can see what is different.
It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled"
it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers
in the new testament were member of my church. We know
what is suppose to be in it.
By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation"
is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone;
that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is
"let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep
us out of trouble.
Glory be to God!
-T
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.
Now WHY would he create something so evil?
If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers =
to
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
your god and had a hand in creation.
Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free w=
ill,
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?
If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
Post by Bod
Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel.
She just wants you to think that.

-- =

What is it when a man talks nasty to a woman?
Sexual Harassment.
What is it when a woman talks nasty to a man?
=A33.99 a minute.
Bod
2016-12-31 19:36:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as
the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible.
I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for
the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own.
If you find something different, quote me the verse and the
edition of the Bible so I can see what is different.
It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled"
it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers
in the new testament were member of my church. We know
what is suppose to be in it.
By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation"
is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone;
that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is
"let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep
us out of trouble.
Glory be to God!
-T
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.
Now WHY would he create something so evil?
If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to
your god and had a hand in creation.
Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will,
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?
If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
Post by Bod
Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel.
She just wants you to think that.
Go and take your medicine.
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-31 19:48:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by T
Post by Muggles
What are you referring to when you say "the
authority of the church"?
I am referring to the Church that was present at the
First Council of Nicaea (today it is called the
Orthodox Church).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon
Three of the Councils great accomplishments were
1) the Nicaean creed
2) the doctrine of the trinity
3) the Bible (the Bible did not come out of thin air)
A lot of stuff went on at that council
For some reason the Bible I've read doesn't say all the same things as
the Bible you read. I'm not Catholic, so I've never seen a Catholic Bible.
I am not Catholic either. They were part of our church for
the first 1000 year, then they went off on their own.
If you find something different, quote me the verse and the
edition of the Bible so I can see what is different.
It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well "compiled"
it. We did not write the Old Testament. All of the writers
in the new testament were member of my church. We know
what is suppose to be in it.
By the way, the Lord prayer "lead us not into temptation"
is a misinterpretation. The Lord doesn't tempt anyone;
that is Satin's job. A better interpretation is
"let us not 'yield' into temptation". In other word, keep
us out of trouble.
Glory be to God!
-T
If your god created everything, then that means he created Satan.
Now WHY would he create something so evil?
If he didn't create satan, that implies that Satan had equal powers to
your god and had a hand in creation.
Also if your god was so powerful and clever to give everyone free will,
then why did he not create *goodwill* in everyone?
If I was a god, I would make *all* humans to be good people.
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
Post by Bod
Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel.
She just wants you to think that.
Go and take your medicine.
Think of a woman as a spy. Everything is calculated.
--
The planet Neptune has barely completed one orbit since it was discovered in 1846.
Pluto hasn't completed a full orbit since its discovery, and won't until March 23, 2178.
The Peeler
2016-12-31 20:28:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:48:22 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
Post by Bod
Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel.
She just wants you to think that.
Go and take your medicine.
Think of a woman as a spy. Everything is calculated.
He, like everyone else, will think of you as an idiot!
--
Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic "mind" at work:
"Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil."
Message-ID: <***@red.lan>
The Peeler
2016-12-31 19:45:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 19:34:11 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Satan is god's wife. Woman are evil.
Post by Bod
Stupid comment. Can't be true, if anything my wife is an angel.
She just wants you to think that.
Are you or aren't you in psychiatric treatment right now, Birdbrain?
--
More details of Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) sociopathic
life:
"Because it's fun. I set loads of stuff on fire when I was a kid."
Message-ID: <***@red.lan>
Muggles
2016-12-31 19:13:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
If you find something different, quote me the verse
and the edition of the Bible so I can see what is
different.
The part about paying to saints isn't in any Bible I've read.
Post by T
It helps that my church wrote the Bible, well
"compiled" it. We did not write the Old Testament.
All of the writers in the new testament were member
of my church. We know what is suppose to be in it.
I always thought God's church were all believers - not any specific
group or denomination.
--
Maggie
Bod
2016-12-30 10:13:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe.
It is sad that it seems to be a tenant of their faith
what others believe. Ask them? Not a chance!
Post by rbowman
In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly.
Post by rbowman
I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
'Poll suggests more Anglicans don’t believe in God than take their
faith seriously'

https://godandpoliticsuk.org/2013/05/03/poll-suggests-more-anglicans-dont-believe-in-god-than-fear-him/
rbowman
2016-12-30 14:58:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe.
It is sad that it seems to be a tenant of their faith
what others believe. Ask them? Not a chance!
Post by rbowman
In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly.
Post by rbowman
I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
'Poll suggests more Anglicans don’t believe in God than take their
faith seriously'
https://godandpoliticsuk.org/2013/05/03/poll-suggests-more-anglicans-dont-believe-in-god-than-fear-him/
A few years ago I read there were more Romans in Britain than Anglicans.
The queer, female, and queer female priests convinced the believing
Anglicans to switch pews.
The Todal
2016-12-30 15:39:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
Here's some good wholesome Christian advice to husbands about how to
discipline their wives.

Women's liberation is all very well, but you have to set boundaries, you
know. As you do with children.

At least, that's the Christian view.

https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/
abelard
2016-12-30 15:48:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
Here's some good wholesome Christian advice to husbands about how to
discipline their wives.
Women's liberation is all very well, but you have to set boundaries, you
know. As you do with children.
At least, that's the Christian view.
no, it is *a* view of some christians
Post by The Todal
https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/
--
www.abelard.org
Judith
2016-12-30 16:42:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 15:39:54 +0000, The Todal <***@icloud.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by The Todal
At least, that's the Christian view.
https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/
I thought I was going to get some good advice there - and indeed I did - I have
passed it on to my partner:

"My position on wife spanking"
It's good to see that I wife spanking by itself is not sinful. But as the
author says "I believe it requires the consent of the wife though to use that
type of discipline"

There's some other really good advice:

If your wife is spending money against your wishes - this may require
confiscation of her credit cards and ATM cards.

If your wife is watching too much TV you could cancel the cable or satellite TV
and just have antenna service.

If your wife is un-submissive in the sexual arena and chronically denies your
sexual advances (without legitimate medical or psychological reasons for doing
so) then perhaps that upcoming trip you were going to take her on gets
canceled.

All good stuff
Praise be to God.
Loading...