Discussion:
ow women's liberation began with Jesus
(too old to reply)
burfordTjustice
2016-12-26 11:29:22 UTC
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How women's liberation began with Jesus

http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
T
2016-12-27 19:57:22 UTC
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Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,

Indeed!

To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.

And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?

And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?

-T
burfordTjustice
2016-12-27 20:46:48 UTC
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On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 11:57:22 -0800
Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
Most certainly not Islam...liberal women
and gays seem to miss the points of Islam...
Dev Null
2016-12-27 22:12:24 UTC
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Post by T
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
If God wanted man to listen to post-menopausal women,
why does he take a man's high frequency hearing as he ages?
T
2016-12-28 00:12:13 UTC
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Post by Dev Null
Post by T
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
If God wanted man to listen to post-menopausal women,
why does he take a man's high frequency hearing as he ages?
Tell your wife that she should yell at you when you
can't hear her. Wait. Forget I said that.

:'(
rbowman
2016-12-28 03:05:12 UTC
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Post by T
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
The Christian community organizers knew what they were doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism

Mithra was very popular in the legions but it was a boys only club. Mom
was left home with too much time on her hands and was recruited by the
Christians. When the old man got home she explained to him how it was
going to be if he ever expected to get a piece.

It always worked that way. Æthelberht was the first Christian English
king. He converted right after the little French hottie he married
explained the facts of life. Next thing you know, you've got Augustine
running around converting people.
rbowman
2016-12-28 03:14:51 UTC
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Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_in_Islam


Many of the Protestant sects don't buy into the Catholic Mariology.
T
2016-12-28 03:39:26 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Many of the Protestant sects don't buy into the Catholic Mariology.
Hi Rbowman,

"Protestant" correctly do not think that Mary is a god. This comes
from some of the inappropriate displays of statuary in Catholic
churches: they "seem" to place Mary and Jesus on an
equal footing. They "seem" to do this other places as well.

But, try as you may, you will be hard pressed to find a Catholic
that thinks Mary is a god and is anything other than a beloved
Saint. It is a massive misunderstanding on the part of
Protestants. They really do need to speak to the Catholics
and find out what Catholics actually believe. (And don't
worry, their are enough out weird things for Protestants to be
scandalized over.)

But they calm down when reminded of what the Bible
says about Mary:

For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden
[Mary]: for, behold, from henceforth all generations
shall call me blessed.
-- Luke 1:48KJV

Beloved Mary has an enormous heart and will pray for anyone,
including me.

And all Christians need to understand that we are not each others
enemies. The enemy is Satin.

-T
rbowman
2016-12-28 05:58:00 UTC
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Post by T
But, try as you may, you will be hard pressed to find a Catholic
that thinks Mary is a god and is anything other than a beloved
Saint. It is a massive misunderstanding on the part of
Protestants. They really do need to speak to the Catholics
and find out what Catholics actually believe. (And don't
worry, their are enough out weird things for Protestants to be
scandalized over.)
Some denominations have liberalized but the more Calvinistic sects have
very little imagination. They are very close to the Muslims in their
attitude to religious art. In fact, they parse the ten commandments to
make sure to come down heavy on the graven image clause. Even the saint
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas.

Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe. In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.

I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
T
2016-12-30 01:53:50 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Post by T
But, try as you may, you will be hard pressed to find a Catholic
that thinks Mary is a god and is anything other than a beloved
Saint. It is a massive misunderstanding on the part of
Protestants. They really do need to speak to the Catholics
and find out what Catholics actually believe. (And don't
worry, their are enough out weird things for Protestants to be
scandalized over.)
Some denominations have liberalized but the more Calvinistic sects have
very little imagination.
It is a sadness that they dusted off one of the old heresies.
And apparently also a sadness that they have never been to a football
game: John 3-16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only
Son, that *whoever* believes in him shall not perish but
have eternal life.

"whoever" really means "whoever". Not just those preselected.
Post by rbowman
They are very close to the Muslims in their
attitude to religious art.
They don't let the Bible get in their way either:

Ark of the Covenant

“They shall construct an ark of acacia wood ... You shall
make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work
[l]at the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub
[m]at one end and one cherub [n]at the other end; you
shall make the cherubim of one piece with the mercy seat
at its two ends. 20 The cherubim shall have their wings
spread upward, covering the mercy seat with their wings
and [o]facing one another; the faces of the cherubim
are to be turned toward the mercy sea
--Exodus 25:10-22

Hmmm. Statues. Hmmmm. The first commandment must mean
no art depicting Bad Guys. Hmmmmmmmm.
Post by rbowman
In fact, they parse the ten commandments to
make sure to come down heavy on the graven image clause. Even the saint
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.

They love their wives and husbands, even love their dogs,
and they get all apoplectic over loving someone that has
gone before.

And again, don't let the Bible get in their way.
Post by rbowman
Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe.
It is sad that it seems to be a tenant of their faith
what others believe. Ask them? Not a chance!
Post by rbowman
In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly.
Post by rbowman
I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
rbowman
2016-12-30 02:21:15 UTC
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Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
T
2016-12-30 02:33:43 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,

It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.

I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.

I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).

In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...

:-)

-T
rbowman
2016-12-30 05:05:23 UTC
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Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
T
2016-12-30 05:34:39 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
Hi R,

I was pretty young. I only remember it was grand.

There are still Catholics out there that practice the traditional mass:

http://catholiclatinmass.org/traditional-latin-mass.html


This is an example of what the Ancient Church does (no one
got us beat on grandness):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBXGg-2-lTc

Okay, I cheated a bit. The angles taught the Russians to Sing.

-T
rbowman
2016-12-30 14:51:31 UTC
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Post by T
http://catholiclatinmass.org/traditional-latin-mass.html
There was a priest from Helena that would come over every couple of
weeks but they dropped it. Now you have to go over there. iirc, he was
in the Society of Saint Pius V. SSPV broke away from SSPX since they
thought SSPX was too liberal. SSPV were definite sedevacantists, meaning
they thought the current pope was going so far against the doctrine that
he wasn't really a pope, hence the See was vacant.

Pius IX warned against modernism in his Syllabus of Errors

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

and held Vatican I to get the church back on track. Pius X tried to
continue his work but the modernists kept chipping away until there is
not much left.
abelard
2016-12-30 15:35:15 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Post by T
http://catholiclatinmass.org/traditional-latin-mass.html
There was a priest from Helena that would come over every couple of
weeks but they dropped it. Now you have to go over there. iirc, he was
in the Society of Saint Pius V. SSPV broke away from SSPX since they
thought SSPX was too liberal. SSPV were definite sedevacantists, meaning
they thought the current pope was going so far against the doctrine that
he wasn't really a pope, hence the See was vacant.
another lot are now fussing about francis
Post by rbowman
Pius IX warned against modernism in his Syllabus of Errors
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
and held Vatican I to get the church back on track. Pius X tried to
continue his work but the modernists kept chipping away until there is
not much left.
--
www.abelard.org
Ophelia
2016-12-30 10:15:59 UTC
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Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'

==================

We had 3 masses on Sundays but only the big one had the choir.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
rbowman
2016-12-30 15:08:37 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
==================
We had 3 masses on Sundays but only the big one had the choir.
We had 5 starting at 0600, but only the finale at 1100 or 1200 was the
full high Mass with entertainment and a chance for the socialites to
show off their finery. My father and I preferred the short, sweet,
workingman's version at 0900. Got the job done and then we could go
fishing or hunting.
Ophelia
2016-12-30 16:49:35 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Post by T
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
About the only time I remember a choir was the Christmas Eve High Mass
with all the bells and whistles, otherwise it was the plain vanilla Low
Mass. The phrase I always waited for was 'Ite, missa est.' to which i
could give a heartfelt 'Deo gratias!'
==================
We had 3 masses on Sundays but only the big one had the choir.
We had 5 starting at 0600, but only the finale at 1100 or 1200 was the
full high Mass with entertainment and a chance for the socialites to
show off their finery. My father and I preferred the short, sweet,
workingman's version at 0900. Got the job done and then we could go
fishing or hunting.

================

So would I if I went now:) I used to sing High Mass at 11 am. When I was a
very young it was always 10 am Mass with the rest of the kids from our
school with the nuns in attendance.

I was in the church choir from the age of about 11 so I missed the kid's
mass then.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ophelia
2016-12-30 10:15:46 UTC
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Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,

It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.

I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.

I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).

In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...

:-)

-T

===============

Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Bod
2016-12-30 10:22:05 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
Ophelia
2016-12-30 11:07:12 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.

====================

I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Bod
2016-12-30 12:20:27 UTC
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Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
====================
I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
In what way do you mean, Ophelia?
Ophelia
2016-12-30 12:28:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
====================
I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
In what way do you mean, Ophelia?

===============

Will you expect it to be in Latin with responses? I would really miss
that:)

Apart from that, I doubt it would be as we knew it:)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Bod
2016-12-30 15:03:32 UTC
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Post by Bod
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
====================
I don't think it will be the way we knew it though. I fear you might be
very disappointed.
In what way do you mean, Ophelia?
===============
Will you expect it to be in Latin with responses? I would really miss
that:)
Apart from that, I doubt it would be as we knew it:)
Post by Bod
Ah, thanks.
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-30 21:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
--
Intercourse prevents divorce.
abelard
2016-12-30 22:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:52:43 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
it was a rock band?
--
www.abelard.org
James Wilkinson Sword
2016-12-30 23:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:52:43 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
it was a rock band?
It was a rock band?
--
Her hair glistened in the rain like nose hair after a sneeze.
The Peeler
2016-12-30 23:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 21:52:43 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
Post by James Wilkinson Sword
Post by Bod
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I just pictured you choir singing and lost my balance.
That's nothing compared to picturing you talking to your ONLY social
contacts in real life, your parrots, Birdbrain! LOL
--
More of Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) strange world:
"The guy I bought my female Scarlet Macaw from had an African Grey who
called each of his 7 dogs by name as they entered the house. To me the dogs
looked identical!"
MID: <***@red.lan>
Uncle Monster
2016-12-30 22:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Post by T
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly
Well, the Reformation wasn't a reformation, just an introduction of
theological novelties that ultimately fueled the Enlightenment.
Ultimately the Prods got what they deserved, a individualistic secular
society with the mainline protestant sects flat lining. Too bad the
Catholics chose to join the lemming leap after Vatican II. The last Mass
I went to, back in the '80s, might as well have been a Unitarian love feast.
Hi R,
It was unfortunate that the Reformation had to happen at all.
Had the Catholics not left the Church and remained true to
apostolic teaching and the Councils, the Reformation would have
never happened. And humanity would have not lost ~230,000 souls.
I remember the high Catholic mass when I was a kid (I was raised
Catholic). Much different now-a-days.
I much prefer the way the Ancient Church (Orthodox) does their
services. I have mainly only been able to watch it though.
I love Pascha (Easter) service where the priest sings out
"Christ is Risen!" and the choir blast back at him "Indeed
he is risen!" and then blast away (the priest lights the fuse).
In the Catholic services, it is very much like the Protestants.
The minister talks for a while, then gets a rest while the choir
sings. In the Ancient service, the choir blasts back and forth
with the priest. The folks is suppose to join in too,
but what would life be without the lecture ...
:-)
-T
===============
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
I too sang for a few years in a church choir, simply because I loved
singing. I didn't believe in god then and I still don't. Churches have a
nice atmosphere though.
I keep promising to go to midnight mass one day on Christmas day.
Maybe next year.
I used to do work for different churches not because I shared their faith but because the congregation were nice people. The churches I helped out were small and not wealthy but the people there would help others however they could. I don't care for the mega churches because the members of those institutions have a holier than thou attitude and I know some good people who have left those congregations because of such behavior. The megachurches with their millions and lavish facilities are a real turn off to me and a lot of other people. The old country church with its simple structure and a congregation of wonderful, generous people who will help out their fellow man are what I think of as REAL Christians. The megachurch is a country club. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Wicked Monster
Cindy Hamilton
2016-12-30 12:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.

I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!

Cindy Hamilton
rbowman
2016-12-30 15:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cindy Hamilton
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.
I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!
Well, that beats Miley Cyrus covers I guess. In the '60s they would try
a hootenanny mass every now and then to try to be popular. Fortunately
the young priest in my parish was more into Gregorian chants.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2016-12-30 19:59:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 04:27:42 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
Post by Cindy Hamilton
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.
I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!
Cindy Hamilton
So much of the current crop of "worship music" is a descendent of
either folk or rock, with 3 chords and 10 words repeated 5 times. - or
something similar. The rest is un-singable and hard to listen to.
The church I attend still sings some of the "old standards" in 4 part
harmony with excellent piano accompniment - with sometimes a violin or
flute, or brass added in. (Neither catholic, nor protestant - google
it)
Percival P. Cassidy
2016-12-30 20:26:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by Cindy Hamilton
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
It hasn't been in Latin since 1965 or so.
I don't know about the U.K., but the last few times I went to a
Catholic church, the music was terrible. Some atonal or 12-tone
modernistic junk. Bring back Bach!
Cindy Hamilton
So much of the current crop of "worship music" is a descendent of
either folk or rock, with 3 chords and 10 words repeated 5 times. - or
something similar. The rest is un-singable and hard to listen to.
The church I attend still sings some of the "old standards" in 4 part
harmony with excellent piano accompniment - with sometimes a violin or
flute, or brass added in. (Neither catholic, nor protestant - google
it)
"Seven-Eleven" songs: seven words repeated eleven times. Or is it the
other way round? The last time I had to endure such, it was because we
went to church with the family members with whom we were staying -- and
they admitted that they went to that particular church not for the
"worship" but because of the friends they had made there.

Perce
Joe
2016-12-30 14:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
--
Joe
Ophelia
2016-12-30 14:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...

Joe

====

I am sure it does date me, but I am retired now:)

What? No hats for the ladies?? Oh dear :)

It does sound very different. Hmm not sure I like the sound of that. i
think I will give midnight mass a miss:))

One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day. I've had
never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?

Thanks for the information though. It is very interesting :)

If there are more etc etc and you can be bothered, I would love to hear of
them:)
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Joe
2016-12-30 14:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.
--
Joe
Ophelia
2016-12-30 16:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.

Joe

===

Ok, we never had that. I visited my old church when I was in the area a few
years ago. It all looked the same except the choir loft was blocked off as
were some of the confessionals.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=st+charles+borromeo+church+hull&biw=1366&bih=666&tbm=isch&imgil=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%253BAAAAAAAAAAABAM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FSt_Charles_Borromeo%25252C_Hull&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%252CAAAAAAAAAAABAM%252C_&usg=__sq7MdfnzkIQs5B5fkJTfgsnyOE4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFjabyrJzRAhVPdlAKHYcYDk8QuqIBCGswCg&imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM#imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM%3A

Just noticed when I searched that it has been awarded Grade 1 listing:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ophelia
2016-12-30 17:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Ophelia" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.

Joe

===

Ok, we never had that. I visited my old church when I was in the area a few
years ago. It all looked the same except the choir loft was blocked off as
were some of the confessionals.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=st+charles+borromeo+church+hull&biw=1366&bih=666&tbm=isch&imgil=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%253BAAAAAAAAAAABAM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FSt_Charles_Borromeo%25252C_Hull&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%252CAAAAAAAAAAABAM%252C_&usg=__sq7MdfnzkIQs5B5fkJTfgsnyOE4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFjabyrJzRAhVPdlAKHYcYDk8QuqIBCGswCg&imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM#imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM%3A

Just noticed when I searched that it has been awarded Grade 1 listing:))

====

Hey, just noticed the corner of the choir loft and organ:)))

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-19c-interior-of-the-church-of-st-charles-borromeo-kingston-upon-76304748.html
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Ophelia
2016-12-30 17:37:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Ophelia" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

"Ophelia" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

"Joe" wrote in message news:***@jresid.jretrading.com...

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:32:09 -0000
Post by Joe
The parish church at Pullagh in Co.
Offaly, ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and
women are no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
One thing though, men and women were never segregated in my day.
I've had never heard of that. Was that peculiar to the ROI?
In Ireland, it was normal for men and women to sit on different sides,
but I think that was the only church to be built in a Y shape to
actually keep them out of sight of each other.

Joe

===

Ok, we never had that. I visited my old church when I was in the area a few
years ago. It all looked the same except the choir loft was blocked off as
were some of the confessionals.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=st+charles+borromeo+church+hull&biw=1366&bih=666&tbm=isch&imgil=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%253BAAAAAAAAAAABAM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FSt_Charles_Borromeo%25252C_Hull&source=iu&pf=m&fir=sjZsnkfxvt8mhM%252CAAAAAAAAAAABAM%252C_&usg=__sq7MdfnzkIQs5B5fkJTfgsnyOE4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFjabyrJzRAhVPdlAKHYcYDk8QuqIBCGswCg&imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM#imgrc=WzQH8rr6GhD9LM%3A

Just noticed when I searched that it has been awarded Grade 1 listing:))

====

Hey, just noticed the corner of the choir loft and organ:)))

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-19c-interior-of-the-church-of-st-charles-borromeo-kingston-upon-76304748.html

=========

Loading Image...

LOL sorry, this is taking me back soooooo many years:))
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Cindy Hamilton
2016-12-30 16:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
Joe
====
I am sure it does date me, but I am retired now:)
What? No hats for the ladies?? Oh dear :)
The last time I went to a Mass that wasn't a funeral or wedding,
it was t-shirts and shorts. IIRC it was Pentecost.

Cindy Hamilton
rbowman
2016-12-30 15:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
Do they hand out bread like some sort of buffet or do the people still
go up to the rail to receive the Host from the priest?
abelard
2016-12-30 15:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
the *only* place i know in france where they bother customers
about hats is a prod church at biarritz(from the brit tourists)
i've visited 100s of such places in britain and france...

the puritanical mood continues
--
www.abelard.org
The Todal
2016-12-30 15:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Joe
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:15:46 -0000
Post by Ophelia
Ahh memories:) I was raised catholic too and sang in the church
choir until my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I
am told things are very different:) I may be wrong but is it no
longer in Latin?
That may date you. I think it's over fifty years since Masses were
routinely said in Latin, it's only done on special occasions now. The
priest's position at the altar faces the people. Women don't have to
wear some form of headgear. The parish church at Pullagh in Co. Offaly,
ROI has been remodelled so that the seating areas for men and women are
no longer concealed from each other. Etc., etc...
What a shame. I suppose now it's politically correct to speak to a
congregation in a language which they can actually understand, and to
allow women to sit near men. But it's bound to stir up lustful thoughts,
and men will inevitably start thinking about having sex with women
rather than in the conventional way with choirboys.
Percival P. Cassidy
2016-12-30 15:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ophelia
I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
Post by Ophelia
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Most Roman Catholic services are no longer in Latin, but there are
parishes (some of them -- but not all -- counted as "in schism") that
continue to use the old Latin Mass. But the main issue is not the
language (Latin vs. English or German or Spanish or whatever) in which
things are said, but what is said, which is now simpler and, some say,
closer to Protestant worship.

Perce
abelard
2016-12-30 15:47:06 UTC
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:43:11 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Post by Ophelia
Post by Ophelia
I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
Post by Ophelia
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Most Roman Catholic services are no longer in Latin, but there are
parishes (some of them -- but not all -- counted as "in schism") that
continue to use the old Latin Mass. But the main issue is not the
language (Latin vs. English or German or Spanish or whatever) in which
things are said, but what is said, which is now simpler and, some say,
closer to Protestant worship.
i think some places allow a choice, that is a latin go once on
sunday... but i've not checked
--
www.abelard.org
Ophelia
2016-12-30 16:51:26 UTC
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Post by Ophelia
I was raised catholic too and sang in the church choir until
my late teens. I haven't been to mass since them and I am told things are
Post by Ophelia
very different:) I may be wrong but is it no longer in Latin?
Most Roman Catholic services are no longer in Latin, but there are
parishes (some of them -- but not all -- counted as "in schism") that
continue to use the old Latin Mass. But the main issue is not the
language (Latin vs. English or German or Spanish or whatever) in which
things are said, but what is said, which is now simpler and, some say,
closer to Protestant worship.

Perce

========================

Good grief:(
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Muggles
2016-12-30 05:59:12 UTC
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Post by T
Post by rbowman
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against
the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have
passed away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor
when it comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that
says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa.
--
Maggie
T
2016-12-30 08:15:27 UTC
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Post by T
Post by rbowman
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against
the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed
away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it
comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa.
Hi Maggie,

Do you believe in the Trinity?

The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one single
word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came out of the
same Nicaean council that compiled the Bible and the Nicaean
Creed.

If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not
"sola scriptura" (the Bible Only). And you are trusting
the authority of the Ancient Church in its teachings.
Just as you are trusting their authority over what went
in the Bible.

Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This
one is though.

We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking
others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven
or on Earth. The first time a saint prays for you, you
can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in
heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint
Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13).

I personally have had several Saints pray for me. And
I have a personal relationship with one who chose me.
He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets
really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation.

And no saint is more approachable than Jesus. My
personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we
pray for others, not just ourselves.

Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in
heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We".
We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church
Triumphant.

Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)

Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.

Love never ends.

Yours in Christ,
--Todd

And another angel came, and stood before the altar,
having a golden censer; and there was given to him
much incense, that he should offer of the prayers
of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before
the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of
the prayers of the saints ascended up before God
from the hand of the angel. (Rev 8: 3-4)
Muggles
2016-12-30 19:27:39 UTC
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Post by T
Post by Muggles
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people
who have passed away to pray for us. Jesus is
supposed to be our intercessor when it comes to
that side... I haven't come across scripture that
says the dead in Christ have access to the living, or
vice versa.
Hi Maggie,
Hi Todd.. :)
Post by T
Do you believe in the Trinity?
I do.
Post by T
The word "Trinity" is a Latin word and there is not one
single word of Latin in the Bible. The Trinity came
out of the same Nicaean council that compiled the
Bible and the Nicaean Creed.
"Trinity" just describes something that is found in the Bible: the
father, son, and holy spirit. It doesn't matter if the origin of the
word is Latin or a Hebrew word. It describes something actually in
the Bible.
Post by T
If you believe in the Trinity, then you are not
"sola scriptura" (the Bible Only).
On the contrary... a word that describes something in the Bible
doesn't negate "solar scriptura".
Post by T
And you are trusting the authority of the Ancient
Church in its teachings. Just as you are trusting their
authority over what went in the Bible.
Not everything Christians believe is in the Bible. This
one is though.
If it's not in the Bible there's a reason it's not there.
Post by T
We Ancient Faith'ers have a long history of the asking
others for their prayers, whether they are in Heaven
or on Earth.
There are no Bible scriptures that teach praying to anyone in heaven.
Christ alone is our intercessor in heaven.
Post by T
The first time a saint prays for you, you
can never be dissuaded of their existence. Those in
heaven have a lot of access to us. As beloved Saint
Paul says, "love never ends" (1 Corinthians 13).
I'm not being critical of you.. OK? I've never understood praying to
saints. It's not in the Bible. Why pray to Christ's servant when you
can talk directly with the master himself?
Post by T
I personally have had several Saints pray for me.
And I have a personal relationship with one who
chose me.
Doesn't that put Christ lower on the priority list? Doesn't it say
that no-one is to come before Christ? I really don't understand.
Post by T
He has even spoken to me in English before. It gets
really interesting when Jesus joins the conversation.
Christ should be first in the conversation, not second.
Post by T
And no saint is more approachable than Jesus.
Jesus isn't a saint... he's the Christ- son of the living God. To
call him a saint removes his standing as king. I can't see how
calling Jesus a saint glorifies him?
Post by T
My personal belief is that the Lord loves it when we
pray for others, not just ourselves.
I've no problem with people on earth praying for others here on
earth. :-)
Post by T
Also notice I said "we". The Church Triumphant in
heaven and the Church Militant on Earth. "We".
We are not abandoned and forgotten by the Church
Triumphant.
But, there is no biblical reference that supports or encouraged
prayer communication between those in heaven and earth.
Post by T
Our communion in prayer with the saints is the
realization of the bond between Christians on
earth and the Heavenly Church. (Heb 12:22-23)
Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.
Saints on earth are different from those in heaven.
Post by T
Love never ends.
:)
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
--
Maggie
Stormin' Norman
2016-12-30 19:37:18 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Asking a saint for their prayers is no different than
me asking you for your prayers. And, of course, it
is whatever you feel comfortable with.
Saints on earth are different from those in heaven.
Post by T
Love never ends.
:)
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales in public. ;-)
Muggles
2016-12-30 19:55:11 UTC
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman
Post by Stormin' Norman
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales
in public. ;-)
Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy
tales.
--
Maggie
Stormin' Norman
2016-12-30 20:08:07 UTC
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Post by Muggles
On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 19:37:18 +0000, Stormin' Norman
Post by Stormin' Norman
Post by Muggles
Post by T
Yours in Christ,
Likewise
It is very entertaining when people debate fairy tales
in public. ;-)
Debate? We aren't debating. One day you'll realize it's not fairy
tales.
Actually, I hope that one day you will realize they are fairy tales.
But, I have not seen evidence that you have the ability to evaluate
any issues using logic and with objectivity.
rbowman
2016-12-30 14:54:56 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by T
Post by rbowman
thing rankles; intercession of a saint goes against
the solas.
I find it bazaar that they pray for each other and get
scandalized if a saint is asked for their prayers.
I can't find any scripture that tells us to ask people who have passed
away to pray for us. Jesus is supposed to be our intercessor when it
comes to that side... I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice versa.
Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The Protestants dumped
it from the canon when they found it inconvenient sort of like Luther
tried to get rid of James because James said faith without works was
useless. That went against sola fides.
Muggles
2016-12-30 19:32:07 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by rbowman
I haven't come across scripture that says the
dead in Christ have access to the living, or vice
versa.
Try 2 Maccabees. You'll find it in the Apocrypha. The
Protestants dumped it from the canon when they
found it inconvenient sort of like Luther tried to get
rid of James because James said faith without
works was useless. That went against sola fides.
That's not part of the Bible. Never read it.
--
Maggie
Bod
2016-12-30 10:13:33 UTC
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Post by T
Post by rbowman
Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe.
It is sad that it seems to be a tenant of their faith
what others believe. Ask them? Not a chance!
Post by rbowman
In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly.
Post by rbowman
I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
'Poll suggests more Anglicans don’t believe in God than take their
faith seriously'

https://godandpoliticsuk.org/2013/05/03/poll-suggests-more-anglicans-dont-believe-in-god-than-fear-him/
rbowman
2016-12-30 14:58:46 UTC
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Post by Bod
Post by T
Post by rbowman
Many have no desire to know what Catholics really believe.
It is sad that it seems to be a tenant of their faith
what others believe. Ask them? Not a chance!
Post by rbowman
In fact, the
Klan figured a Catholic would do if they couldn't find a handy negro.
Hold over hatred from the reformation. The Catholics handled
the Reformation really badly.
Post by rbowman
I have personal theological issues but the Catholic Church did a pretty
good job of adapting to the soul of the northern Europeans when they
displaced the old Gods.
'Poll suggests more Anglicans don’t believe in God than take their
faith seriously'
https://godandpoliticsuk.org/2013/05/03/poll-suggests-more-anglicans-dont-believe-in-god-than-fear-him/
A few years ago I read there were more Romans in Britain than Anglicans.
The queer, female, and queer female priests convinced the believing
Anglicans to switch pews.
The Todal
2016-12-30 15:39:54 UTC
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Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
Here's some good wholesome Christian advice to husbands about how to
discipline their wives.

Women's liberation is all very well, but you have to set boundaries, you
know. As you do with children.

At least, that's the Christian view.

https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/
abelard
2016-12-30 15:48:04 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by T
Post by burfordTjustice
How women's liberation began with Jesus
http://nyp.st/2h6PFiv
Hi Burford,
Indeed!
To add to the article, female converts to Christianity in
the early years outnumbers men by three to one.
And, the largest complaint wives have about their husbands
it that they don't listen to them. (Men's brains are wired
differently for speaking and listening.) What other religoun
commands husbands to listen to their wives?
And, what other religoun has as its favorite saint a woman
(beloved mother Mary)?
-T
Here's some good wholesome Christian advice to husbands about how to
discipline their wives.
Women's liberation is all very well, but you have to set boundaries, you
know. As you do with children.
At least, that's the Christian view.
no, it is *a* view of some christians
Post by The Todal
https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/
--
www.abelard.org
Judith
2016-12-30 16:42:39 UTC
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 15:39:54 +0000, The Todal <***@icloud.com> wrote:

<snip>
Post by The Todal
At least, that's the Christian view.
https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/
I thought I was going to get some good advice there - and indeed I did - I have
passed it on to my partner:

"My position on wife spanking"
It's good to see that I wife spanking by itself is not sinful. But as the
author says "I believe it requires the consent of the wife though to use that
type of discipline"

There's some other really good advice:

If your wife is spending money against your wishes - this may require
confiscation of her credit cards and ATM cards.

If your wife is watching too much TV you could cancel the cable or satellite TV
and just have antenna service.

If your wife is un-submissive in the sexual arena and chronically denies your
sexual advances (without legitimate medical or psychological reasons for doing
so) then perhaps that upcoming trip you were going to take her on gets
canceled.

All good stuff
Praise be to God.
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