Twisted Floor Joists

[icb1977]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREA
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It look
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these tw
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There ar
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. Th
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no sign
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy an
anxious.

The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, bu
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, bu
advised the structural engineer's inspection.

What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and th
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.

Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jac
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and star
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary


--
icb1977

[t***@optonline.net]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[DerbyDad03]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

Obviously, getting the opinion of a structural engineer for your specific
situation is the best idea. Since we can't see the house from where we're
sitting, we can't give you a direct answer as to whether or not a simple
"straitening" is all that is required.

However, if you DAGS for "twisted floor joists", you'll find sites like
this which can help you determine how to deal with the issue...

http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/squeaky-floor.htm#bridging

Per that site, the only 'jacking' required is within the top of the joist
bay to keep the tops of the joists in place as you use a clamp on the
bottom of the joists to draw them in and install bracing, as shown here...

Loading Image...

Based on what you've described, I'll hazard a guess and state that after a
little bit of repair work, you are going to be very happy in your new home.
Good luck!

[TomR]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It
looks as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on
these two joists for some reason and as the house settled they
twisted. There are approximately 100 joists and these are the only
two that twisted. The floor above the joists feels solid. The wall
above also shows no signs of abnormal settling. We plan on having a
structural engineer take a look at it before purchase, but in the
meantime we are uneasy and anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist,
but these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to
jack and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer
this, but just looking for some info to get us through the next week
and start to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

Sounds like no big deal to me -- and probably an easy fix if needed or
desired.

You already did the right thing by having a home inspection done and you
plan on getting the opinion of a structural engineer.

A few photos would be great if you get a chance to do that and know how to
post them (via http://tinypic.com or some similar free photo posting
website).

How old is the house?

[k***@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:00 +0100, icb1977

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

In addition to what others have said, I'd recommend getting the advice
of a contractor. This is something you're probably not going to do
yourself. It would be good to know what it's going to cost to
correct. The current owners should pay for it anyway.

[DerbyDad03]

Post by k***@attt.bizz
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:00 +0100, icb1977

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

In addition to what others have said, I'd recommend getting the advice
of a contractor. This is something you're probably not going to do
yourself. It would be good to know what it's going to cost to
correct. The current owners should pay for it anyway.

It might be a DIY job but without pics (and the opinion of the engineer)
it's really hard to say.

If the following sketch is all it would take, I might try it myself - after
getting the engineer's opinion, of course.

Straighten the joists like this and then install blocking.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/Joist-jacking

Loading Image...

Again, the engineer's opinion is required, and of course, if the buyer can
get the seller to pay for it, even better.

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by DerbyDad03
It might be a DIY job but without pics (and the opinion of the engineer)
it's really hard to say.
If the following sketch is all it would take, I might try it myself - after
getting the engineer's opinion, of course.
Straighten the joists like this and then install blocking.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/Joist-jacking
http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/images6/straightening%20floor%20joists%20with%20clamp%20and%20jack%20cr.jpg
Again, the engineer's opinion is required, and of course, if the buyer can
get the seller to pay for it, even better.

How about if you attach boards along side the
beams that are out of true. Pound a bit with
stones or rocks, until they straighten. Fasten
on the parallel boards. And then call it twisted
sister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_Sister

Not funny, Chris.

[DerbyDad03]

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by DerbyDad03
It might be a DIY job but without pics (and the opinion of the engineer)
it's really hard to say.
If the following sketch is all it would take, I might try it myself - after
getting the engineer's opinion, of course.
Straighten the joists like this and then install blocking.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/Joist-jacking
http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/images6/straightening%20floor%20joists%20with%20clamp%20and%20jack%20cr.jpg
Again, the engineer's opinion is required, and of course, if the buyer can
get the seller to pay for it, even better.

How about if you attach boards along side the
beams that are out of true. Pound a bit with
stones or rocks, until they straighten. Fasten
on the parallel boards. And then call it twisted
sister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_Sister
Not funny, Chris.

I grew up in Queens, NYC and used to go to a small club that Twisted Sister
played quite often before they got (somewhat) famous. As they became "well
known" it was hard to keep track of who was who as they changed members
quite often.

[k***@attt.bizz]

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 01:11:28 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

Post by DerbyDad03

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by DerbyDad03
It might be a DIY job but without pics (and the opinion of the engineer)
it's really hard to say.
If the following sketch is all it would take, I might try it myself - after
getting the engineer's opinion, of course.
Straighten the joists like this and then install blocking.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/Joist-jacking
http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/images6/straightening%20floor%20joists%20with%20clamp%20and%20jack%20cr.jpg
Again, the engineer's opinion is required, and of course, if the buyer can
get the seller to pay for it, even better.

That's where I would be going. Structural things, I'd prefer to have
a pro take care of. Unless this is a foreclosure, or such, there is a
very good chance the seller will pay for it.

Post by DerbyDad03

Post by Stormin Mormon
How about if you attach boards along side the
beams that are out of true. Pound a bit with
stones or rocks, until they straighten. Fasten
on the parallel boards. And then call it twisted
sister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_Sister
Not funny, Chris.

I grew up in Queens, NYC and used to go to a small club that Twisted Sister
played quite often before they got (somewhat) famous. As they became "well
known" it was hard to keep track of who was who as they changed members
quite often.

REO Speedwagon used to play one of the bars in town about once a week,
before they hit it big (and went nutz).

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by DerbyDad03
I grew up in Queens, NYC and used to go to a small club that Twisted Sister
played quite often before they got (somewhat) famous. As they became "well
known" it was hard to keep track of who was who as they changed members
quite often.

Well, bless your heart. Get in on the ground floor?

[icb1977]

I posted some responses earlier, but not sure where they went....bu
here we go:

Here are some pictures of the two joists:

'[image: Loading Image...]
(Loading Image....html)

'[image: Loading Image...]
(Loading Image....html)

The entire joist isn't twisted, just the end where it lacked cross-jois
supports, it straightens out on the i-beam side of the joist. (Thes
were the only two joists that didn't have cross joist supports and i
looks as if they had put some plywood on the bottom side of th
flooring. Maybe they couldn't get it vertical again with the adde
plywood?)

The foundation footprint is approx 80'x40' with a steel i-beam going th
length of the 80' run and 10x2's running from the i-beam to th
foundation walls. Joists are on 16" centers so this would equat
approx. 60 joists.

As far as getting the seller to pay for repairs, it is a foreclosure s
the bank is not going to pay anything. But I am going to try to ge
them to split any major costs. Afterall they will now have to disclos
it if it is something structural since they can't say they don't kno
about it. Plus I' a bird in hand so maybe they will consider it if I a
prepared to "walk".

This house is unique. It is in a small neighborhood that is very uniqu
in the fact it shares a border with a nature preserve. Plus it ha
everything on our wishlist. Houses in this neighborhood rarely go u
for sale and we don't want to miss it.

But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill"


--
icb1977

[DerbyDad03]

I posted some responses earlier, but not sure where they went....but
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo1.jpg]'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo1.jpg.html)
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo2.jpg]'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo2.jpg.html)
The entire joist isn't twisted, just the end where it lacked cross-joist
supports, it straightens out on the i-beam side of the joist. (These
were the only two joists that didn't have cross joist supports and it
looks as if they had put some plywood on the bottom side of the
flooring. Maybe they couldn't get it vertical again with the added
plywood?)
The foundation footprint is approx 80'x40' with a steel i-beam going the
length of the 80' run and 10x2's running from the i-beam to the
foundation walls. Joists are on 16" centers so this would equate
approx. 60 joists.
As far as getting the seller to pay for repairs, it is a foreclosure so
the bank is not going to pay anything. But I am going to try to get
them to split any major costs. Afterall they will now have to disclose
it if it is something structural since they can't say they don't know
about it. Plus I' a bird in hand so maybe they will consider it if I am
prepared to "walk".
This house is unique. It is in a small neighborhood that is very unique
in the fact it shares a border with a nature preserve. Plus it has
everything on our wishlist. Houses in this neighborhood rarely go up
for sale and we don't want to miss it.
But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill".

While getting the engineer's opinion is still a good idea, it looks to me
like the fix I suggested would work. First you do this, then you insert
blocking while the clamp and jack are in place.

http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/images6/solid%20bridging%20added%20cr.jpg

Perhaps you should print that out and show it to the engineer.

Once the blocking is in place, you could secure the sub-floor to the joists
with these:

Loading Image...

I don't know if I would trust the original nails since the bending out and
then back in will probably loosen them. Have someone (or someones) stand on
the floor above to ensure it has good contact with the top of the joist,
maybe even put some adhesive in there if there is a gap.

[c***@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:55:11 +0100, icb1977

I posted some responses earlier, but not sure where they went....but
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo1.jpg]'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo1.jpg.html)
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo2.jpg]'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo2.jpg.html)
The entire joist isn't twisted, just the end where it lacked cross-joist
supports, it straightens out on the i-beam side of the joist. (These
were the only two joists that didn't have cross joist supports and it
looks as if they had put some plywood on the bottom side of the
flooring. Maybe they couldn't get it vertical again with the added
plywood?)
The foundation footprint is approx 80'x40' with a steel i-beam going the
length of the 80' run and 10x2's running from the i-beam to the
foundation walls. Joists are on 16" centers so this would equate
approx. 60 joists.
As far as getting the seller to pay for repairs, it is a foreclosure so
the bank is not going to pay anything. But I am going to try to get
them to split any major costs. Afterall they will now have to disclose
it if it is something structural since they can't say they don't know
about it. Plus I' a bird in hand so maybe they will consider it if I am
prepared to "walk".
This house is unique. It is in a small neighborhood that is very unique
in the fact it shares a border with a nature preserve. Plus it has
everything on our wishlist. Houses in this neighborhood rarely go up
for sale and we don't want to miss it.
But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill".

Sounds more like a little ant-hill. An irritation, but nothing
serious. If you like the house and there is nothing more serious
wrong, grab it and enjoy. Like others have said,, adding a few joists
is cheap in an open basement - and with 16" centers a few more will
never hurt anyway (mine are on 12" centers and they are less than 20
feet!!!

[C***@work.com]

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca

But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill".

Sounds more like a little ant-hill. An irritation, but nothing
serious. If you like the house and there is nothing more serious
wrong, grab it and enjoy. Like others have said,, adding a few joists
is cheap in an open basement - and with 16" centers a few more will
never hurt anyway (mine are on 12" centers and they are less than 20
feet!!!

After seeing the pictures, it looks to me like a repair was already
done. He has plywood added, the cement is gray, with the rest around it
being white, and there is an added 2x4 against the cement. Plus why
would this be the only place there is no cross bracing.

Maybe there was something there, like a clothes chute, or some sort of
trap door, or??????? Then too, there may have been a foundation issue
that was repaired, such as a leak or maybe someone drove a car into the
wall. No one really knows except the former owner, and since it's a
forclosure, you may never know.

Then again, maybe they just repaired the floor in that spot to level it,
and had to do some work on the cement to get things in place. Either
way, it looks like an "ant hill" to me. I wouldn't spend the money on a
structural engineer, but that's me. I would not do anything to be
honest, other than put in some cross bracing. You CANT straighten it
where the twist is located, because it's embedded in cement.

It's hard to tell from the picture, but is that plywood level with the
rest of the floor, or did they add some 1/4" plywood under the rest of
the floor boards to raise that part of the floor to level?

Either way, I'd buy it and enjoy it. Then find something else to worry
about, such as the state of the economy, the weather, or erectile
dysfunction in the elderly.

[TomR]

I posted some responses earlier, but not sure where they went....but
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo1.jpg]'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo1.jpg.html)
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo2.jpg]'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo2.jpg.html)
The entire joist isn't twisted, just the end where it lacked
cross-joist supports, it straightens out on the i-beam side of the
joist. (These were the only two joists that didn't have cross joist
supports and it looks as if they had put some plywood on the bottom
side of the flooring. Maybe they couldn't get it vertical again with
the added plywood?)
The foundation footprint is approx 80'x40' with a steel i-beam going
the length of the 80' run and 10x2's running from the i-beam to the
foundation walls. Joists are on 16" centers so this would equate
approx. 60 joists.
As far as getting the seller to pay for repairs, it is a foreclosure
so the bank is not going to pay anything. But I am going to try to
get them to split any major costs. Afterall they will now have to
disclose it if it is something structural since they can't say they
don't know about it. Plus I' a bird in hand so maybe they will
consider it if I am prepared to "walk".
This house is unique. It is in a small neighborhood that is very
unique in the fact it shares a border with a nature preserve. Plus
it has everything on our wishlist. Houses in this neighborhood
rarely go up for sale and we don't want to miss it.
But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill".

Thanks for posting photos. That helps. Looks like no big deal to me and an
easy fix if you want to do that.

Since it is a bank-owned foreclosure sale, I think you are right and they
aren't going to want to get involved in fixing anything. Most likely, it
will be an as-is, where-is, take-it-or-leave-it deal. And, they aren't
going to care about having to "disclose" anything regardless of how an
engineer's report or home inspection comes out. This is an obvious
easily-visualized potential issue, so there wouldn't be any kind of hidden
defect that they weren't disclosing.

You said you really like the property, you like its location, few of them
come on the market, and you don't want to miss out on getting this one. If
that's the case, and if you are a qualified buyer who can either pay cash or
definitely come up with the financing, then don't make it too complicated --
just make the offer and close the deal. If you try to think of this too
much like a traditional home purchase from a regular homeowner, you will
miss out on this property and will probably regret it. Banks or lenders who
take back a property in foreclosure just want to sell it with no strings
attached and no contingencies.

Good luck. Let us know if you end up buying it.

[icb1977]

;3188590']cb1977 wrote:-
I posted some responses earlier, but not sure where they went....but
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo1.jpg]'
('photo1.jpg Photo by icb1977 | Photobucket
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo1.jpg.html))
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo2.jpg]'
('photo2.jpg Photo by icb1977 | Photobucket
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo2.jpg.html))
The entire joist isn't twisted, just the end where it lacked
cross-joist supports, it straightens out on the i-beam side of the
joist. (These were the only two joists that didn't have cross joist
supports and it looks as if they had put some plywood on the bottom
side of the flooring. Maybe they couldn't get it vertical again with
the added plywood?)
The foundation footprint is approx 80'x40' with a steel i-beam going
the length of the 80' run and 10x2's running from the i-beam to the
foundation walls. Joists are on 16" centers so this would equate
approx. 60 joists.
As far as getting the seller to pay for repairs, it is a foreclosure
so the bank is not going to pay anything. But I am going to try to
get them to split any major costs. Afterall they will now have to
disclose it if it is something structural since they can't say they
don't know about it. Plus I' a bird in hand so maybe they will
consider it if I am prepared to "walk".
This house is unique. It is in a small neighborhood that is very
unique in the fact it shares a border with a nature preserve. Plus
it has everything on our wishlist. Houses in this neighborhood
rarely go up for sale and we don't want to miss it.
But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill".-
Thanks for posting photos. That helps. Looks like no big deal to m
and an
easy fix if you want to do that.
Since it is a bank-owned foreclosure sale, I think you are right an
they
aren't going to want to get involved in fixing anything. Most likely
it
will be an as-is, where-is, take-it-or-leave-it deal. And, they aren'
going to care about having to "disclose" anything regardless of how an
engineer's report or home inspection comes out. This is an obvious
easily-visualized potential issue, so there wouldn't be any kind o
hidden
defect that they weren't disclosing.
You said you really like the property, you like its location, few o
them
come on the market, and you don't want to miss out on getting this one.
If
that's the case, and if you are a qualified buyer who can either pa
cash or
definitely come up with the financing, then don't make it to
complicated --
just make the offer and close the deal. If you try to think of this to
much like a traditional home purchase from a regular homeowner, you wil
miss out on this property and will probably regret it. Banks or lender
who
take back a property in foreclosure just want to sell it with no string
attached and no contingencies.
Good luck. Let us know if you end up buying it.

I did decide to spend the extra money and have an engineer evaluate it.
I was actually expecting it to cost $500 as that is what one compan
(that was referred by a friend) had originally quoted. But when I trie
to schedule it he never returned my call so I went to Angie's List.
Through there I came in contact with a local Architectural Company tha
I see doing all kinds of work in the area, both commercial an
residential. So I gave them a call and actually spoke with th
President and he listened to my situation and that I only had a day lef
of inspection time, unless the lawyers granted an extension and h
himself met me out at the site and inspected it. Top iot all off, hi
charge was $180!

He saw no major issue and simply recommended straightening them and onc
straightened he would put a 8x2 supporting board vertically between th
two joists and the 3rd (which was vertical and not twisted) to brace
them from moving again.

He found a little bit of moisture in the 10x2 joist near the foundation
wall and that with the replaced flooring figures they had some moisture
problem with the sliding glass door.

Thank you for all your advice on the matter. At least I have peace of
mind now....we are going to move forward and purchase the home. Knock
on wood it is all formalities now since I was preapproved and they've
already accepted the offer and we are contingent. Closing date is
Valentine's Day, so looks like I'm set for Valentine's Day gifts for
what.....the next 30 years?

[Oren]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 20:52:19 +0100, icb1977

Post by icb1977

Post by TomR
Good luck. Let us know if you end up buying it.

I did decide to spend the extra money and have an engineer evaluate it.
I was actually expecting it to cost $500 as that is what one company
(that was referred by a friend) had originally quoted. But when I tried
to schedule it he never returned my call so I went to Angie's List.
Through there I came in contact with a local Architectural Company that
I see doing all kinds of work in the area, both commercial and
residential. So I gave them a call and actually spoke with the
President and he listened to my situation and that I only had a day left
of inspection time, unless the lawyers granted an extension and he
himself met me out at the site and inspected it. Top iot all off, his
charge was $180!
He saw no major issue and simply recommended straightening them and once
straightened he would put a 8x2 supporting board vertically between the
two joists and the 3rd (which was vertical and not twisted) to brace
them from moving again.
He found a little bit of moisture in the 10x2 joist near the foundation
wall and that with the replaced flooring figures they had some moisture
problem with the sliding glass door.
Thank you for all your advice on the matter. At least I have peace of
mind now....we are going to move forward and purchase the home. Knock
on wood it is all formalities now since I was preapproved and they've
already accepted the offer and we are contingent. Closing date is
Valentine's Day, so looks like I'm set for Valentine's Day gifts for
what.....the next 30 years?

Good job. When I saw the photos I did not think it was a major
concern ( my limited experience ).

I'd check into the reason the sliding door caused water damage. It
could be a few reasons. And. If the water infiltration been addressed
already. Certainly address that when you move in.

Enjoy the new home!

[DerbyDad03]

Story of twisted joists snipped...

Post by icb1977
I did decide to spend the extra money and have an engineer evaluate it.
I was actually expecting it to cost $500 as that is what one company
(that was referred by a friend) had originally quoted. But when I tried
to schedule it he never returned my call so I went to Angie's List.

(Short snip...he called a different engineer...)

Post by icb1977
Top it all off, his charge was $180!
He saw no major issue and simply recommended straightening them and once
straightened he would put a 8x2 supporting board vertically between the
two joists and the 3rd (which was vertical and not twisted) to brace
them from moving again.

For $180 it was a non-issue. For $500 it would have needed $10,000 in
structural repairs, possibly resulting in condemnation of the structure.

You get what you pay for.

[icb1977]

'TomR[_3_ Wrote: -
Story of twisted joists snipped...
-
I did decide to spend the extra money and have an engineer evaluate it
I was actually expecting it to cost $500 as that is what one company
(that was referred by a friend) had originally quoted. But when
tried
to schedule it he never returned my call so I went to Angie's List. -
(Short snip...he called a different engineer...)
-
Top it all off, his charge was $180!
He saw no major issue and simply recommended straightening them an
once
straightened he would put a 8x2 supporting board vertically betwee
the
two joists and the 3rd (which was vertical and not twisted) to brace
them from moving again.
-
For $180 it was a non-issue. For $500 it would have needed $10,000 in
structural repairs, possibly resulting in condemnation of th
structure.
You get what you pay for.

Are you saying that overpaying guarantees quality? The reason I shoppe
around was because the first guy never answered my emails or calls and
only have one day until the inspection deadline expires.

So I went to Angie's List to expand my search and found a loca
architectural group that could perform the inspection. I guess I shoul
have rejected the offer since it wasn't expensive enough. Btw I wa
prepared to spend the $500


--
icb1977

[DerbyDad03]

'TomR[_3_ Wrote: -
Story of twisted joists snipped...
-
I did decide to spend the extra money and have an engineer evaluate it.
I was actually expecting it to cost $500 as that is what one company
(that was referred by a friend) had originally quoted. But when I tried
to schedule it he never returned my call so I went to Angie's List. -
(Short snip...he called a different engineer...)
-
Top it all off, his charge was $180!
He saw no major issue and simply recommended straightening them and once
straightened he would put a 8x2 supporting board vertically between the
two joists and the 3rd (which was vertical and not twisted) to brace
them from moving again.
-
For $180 it was a non-issue. For $500 it would have needed $10,000 in
structural repairs, possibly resulting in condemnation of the
structure.
You get what you pay for.

Are you saying that overpaying guarantees quality? The reason I shopped
around was because the first guy never answered my emails or calls and I
only have one day until the inspection deadline expires.
So I went to Angie's List to expand my search and found a local
architectural group that could perform the inspection. I guess I should
have rejected the offer since it wasn't expensive enough. Btw I was
prepared to spend the $500.

Relax.

I was joking.

[TomR]

Post by icb1977

;3188590']cb1977 wrote:-
I posted some responses earlier, but not sure where they went....but
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo1.jpg]'
('photo1.jpg Photo by icb1977 | Photobucket'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo1.jpg.html))
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo2.jpg]'
('photo2.jpg Photo by icb1977 | Photobucket'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo2.jpg.html))
The entire joist isn't twisted, just the end where it lacked
cross-joist supports, it straightens out on the i-beam side of the
joist. (These were the only two joists that didn't have cross joist
supports and it looks as if they had put some plywood on the bottom
side of the flooring. Maybe they couldn't get it vertical again with
the added plywood?)
The foundation footprint is approx 80'x40' with a steel i-beam going
the length of the 80' run and 10x2's running from the i-beam to the
foundation walls. Joists are on 16" centers so this would equate
approx. 60 joists.
As far as getting the seller to pay for repairs, it is a foreclosure
so the bank is not going to pay anything. But I am going to try to
get them to split any major costs. Afterall they will now have to
disclose it if it is something structural since they can't say they
don't know about it. Plus I' a bird in hand so maybe they will
consider it if I am prepared to "walk".
This house is unique. It is in a small neighborhood that is very
unique in the fact it shares a border with a nature preserve. Plus
it has everything on our wishlist. Houses in this neighborhood
rarely go up for sale and we don't want to miss it.
But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill".-
Thanks for posting photos. That helps. Looks like no big deal to me and an
easy fix if you want to do that.
Since it is a bank-owned foreclosure sale, I think you are right and they
aren't going to want to get involved in fixing anything. Most likely, it
will be an as-is, where-is, take-it-or-leave-it deal. And, they aren't
going to care about having to "disclose" anything regardless of how an
engineer's report or home inspection comes out. This is an obvious
easily-visualized potential issue, so there wouldn't be any kind of hidden
defect that they weren't disclosing.
You said you really like the property, you like its location, few of them
come on the market, and you don't want to miss out on getting this one.
If
that's the case, and if you are a qualified buyer who can either pay cash or
definitely come up with the financing, then don't make it too
complicated --
just make the offer and close the deal. If you try to think of this too
much like a traditional home purchase from a regular homeowner, you will
miss out on this property and will probably regret it. Banks or lenders who
take back a property in foreclosure just want to sell it with no strings
attached and no contingencies.
Good luck. Let us know if you end up buying it.

I did decide to spend the extra money and have an engineer evaluate it.
I was actually expecting it to cost $500 as that is what one company
(that was referred by a friend) had originally quoted. But when I tried
to schedule it he never returned my call so I went to Angie's List.
Through there I came in contact with a local Architectural Company that
I see doing all kinds of work in the area, both commercial and
residential. So I gave them a call and actually spoke with the
President and he listened to my situation and that I only had a day left
of inspection time, unless the lawyers granted an extension and he
himself met me out at the site and inspected it. Top iot all off, his
charge was $180!
He saw no major issue and simply recommended straightening them and once
straightened he would put a 8x2 supporting board vertically between the
two joists and the 3rd (which was vertical and not twisted) to brace
them from moving again.
He found a little bit of moisture in the 10x2 joist near the foundation
wall and that with the replaced flooring figures they had some moisture
problem with the sliding glass door.
Thank you for all your advice on the matter. At least I have peace of
mind now....we are going to move forward and purchase the home. Knock
on wood it is all formalities now since I was preapproved and they've
already accepted the offer and we are contingent. Closing date is
Valentine's Day, so looks like I'm set for Valentine's Day gifts for
what.....the next 30 years?

Sounds great. Thanks for the update. Hopefully the closing process will go
smoothly.

The $180 charge is certainly reasonable and in line with what I would have
expected the cost to be. My guess would have been about $250 max for a
structural engineer in my area (New Jersey) to look at it and give an
opinion.

[c***@snyder.on.ca]

Post by TomR

Post by icb1977

;3188590']cb1977 wrote:-
I posted some responses earlier, but not sure where they went....but
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo1.jpg]'
('photo1.jpg Photo by icb1977 | Photobucket'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo1.jpg.html))
'[image: http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/icb1977/photo2.jpg]'
('photo2.jpg Photo by icb1977 | Photobucket'
(http://s432.photobucket.com/user/icb1977/media/photo2.jpg.html))
The entire joist isn't twisted, just the end where it lacked
cross-joist supports, it straightens out on the i-beam side of the
joist. (These were the only two joists that didn't have cross joist
supports and it looks as if they had put some plywood on the bottom
side of the flooring. Maybe they couldn't get it vertical again with
the added plywood?)
The foundation footprint is approx 80'x40' with a steel i-beam going
the length of the 80' run and 10x2's running from the i-beam to the
foundation walls. Joists are on 16" centers so this would equate
approx. 60 joists.
As far as getting the seller to pay for repairs, it is a foreclosure
so the bank is not going to pay anything. But I am going to try to
get them to split any major costs. Afterall they will now have to
disclose it if it is something structural since they can't say they
don't know about it. Plus I' a bird in hand so maybe they will
consider it if I am prepared to "walk".
This house is unique. It is in a small neighborhood that is very
unique in the fact it shares a border with a nature preserve. Plus
it has everything on our wishlist. Houses in this neighborhood
rarely go up for sale and we don't want to miss it.
But I don't really know whether this is a "Mountain" or a "Molehill".-
Thanks for posting photos. That helps. Looks like no big deal to me and an
easy fix if you want to do that.
Since it is a bank-owned foreclosure sale, I think you are right and they
aren't going to want to get involved in fixing anything. Most likely, it
will be an as-is, where-is, take-it-or-leave-it deal. And, they aren't
going to care about having to "disclose" anything regardless of how an
engineer's report or home inspection comes out. This is an obvious
easily-visualized potential issue, so there wouldn't be any kind of hidden
defect that they weren't disclosing.
You said you really like the property, you like its location, few of them
come on the market, and you don't want to miss out on getting this one.
If
that's the case, and if you are a qualified buyer who can either pay cash or
definitely come up with the financing, then don't make it too complicated --
just make the offer and close the deal. If you try to think of this too
much like a traditional home purchase from a regular homeowner, you will
miss out on this property and will probably regret it. Banks or lenders who
take back a property in foreclosure just want to sell it with no strings
attached and no contingencies.
Good luck. Let us know if you end up buying it.

I did decide to spend the extra money and have an engineer evaluate it.
I was actually expecting it to cost $500 as that is what one company
(that was referred by a friend) had originally quoted. But when I tried
to schedule it he never returned my call so I went to Angie's List.
Through there I came in contact with a local Architectural Company that
I see doing all kinds of work in the area, both commercial and
residential. So I gave them a call and actually spoke with the
President and he listened to my situation and that I only had a day left
of inspection time, unless the lawyers granted an extension and he
himself met me out at the site and inspected it. Top iot all off, his
charge was $180!
He saw no major issue and simply recommended straightening them and once
straightened he would put a 8x2 supporting board vertically between the
two joists and the 3rd (which was vertical and not twisted) to brace
them from moving again.
He found a little bit of moisture in the 10x2 joist near the foundation
wall and that with the replaced flooring figures they had some moisture
problem with the sliding glass door.
Thank you for all your advice on the matter. At least I have peace of
mind now....we are going to move forward and purchase the home. Knock
on wood it is all formalities now since I was preapproved and they've
already accepted the offer and we are contingent. Closing date is
Valentine's Day, so looks like I'm set for Valentine's Day gifts for
what.....the next 30 years?

Sounds great. Thanks for the update. Hopefully the closing process will go
smoothly.
The $180 charge is certainly reasonable and in line with what I would have
expected the cost to be. My guess would have been about $250 max for a
structural engineer in my area (New Jersey) to look at it and give an
opinion.

Around her $250-ish for inspection and verbal opinion - likely over
$500 if it is put in a report on paper.

[Lab Lover]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

I would rely on the engineer before I would listen to advice from a Usenet
group. The engineer has E & O insurance, if he is wrong, you are off the hook.

[Paul Drahn]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

Is the sub-floor nailed to them, or did they move after the sub-floor
was laid? If the sub-floor is nailed to them, you will cause more damage
by trying to straighten them. In any case, they were probably green
lumber when the house was built and twisted after being placed.

My opinion is to just block them where they are so they don't cause
floor squeeks, or something like that later on in life.

Paul

[dpb]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

...

I'd venture if as you describe it's essentially nothing. If the floor
doesn't have either high or low spot of any significance what's to worry
about? And, if even if it did have some local variation from just some
lateral twist it would certainly be possible to remove it but more than
likely there's no need whatsoever.

Can you use "mountain" and "molehill" in a sentence... :)

--

[philo]

Post by dpb
X
I'd venture if as you describe it's essentially nothing. If the floor
doesn't have either high or low spot of any significance what's to worry
about? And, if even if it did have some local variation from just some
lateral twist it would certainly be possible to remove it but more than
likely there's no need whatsoever.
Can you use "mountain" and "molehill" in a sentence... :)
X

I'd still have a professional inspect it even though it can probably be
fixed easily enough.

It may be possible to get the price of the house lowered a bit though.

[Pat]

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:00 +0100, icb1977

The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.

Maybe I'm just slow today, but what do these numbers mean? 33% of
what?

[h***@sbcglobal.net]

I think the OP meant 33 degrees from the normal vertical alignment. In my mind, that is a LOT of twist, and if I tried to straighten it, I would do so very slowly a few(10 or less) degrees at a time and then wait a month or more to see if there is any noticeable effect on the floor/wall above. I would get an estimate of the cost from a contractor and use that as a negotiating tool to get a good portion of that money credited at the time of closing.

[t***@optonline.net]

Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
I think the OP meant 33 degrees from the normal vertical alignment. In my mind, that is a LOT of twist, and if I tried to straighten it, I would do so very slowly a few(10 or less) degrees at a time and then wait a month or more to see if there is any noticeable effect on the floor/wall above. I would get an estimate of the cost from a contractor and use that as a negotiating tool to get a good portion of that money credited at the time of closing.

He actually said 40 deg of twist/offset.. Some pics would be helpful.
I'm not sure how it's being measured either. If it is from vertical,
then I agree even 33 deg is a hell of a lot of twist. He said the inspector said
you could deal with 33 deg? What does deal with it mean? It's OK?

And 40 is, well almost 45 :)
And is this a joist that is still straight along it's run, but it
just like keeled over? Or by twist does he mean that the joist is
badly warped and not uniform?

[Bob F]

Post by t***@optonline.net

Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
I think the OP meant 33 degrees from the normal vertical alignment.
In my mind, that is a LOT of twist, and if I tried to straighten it,
I would do so very slowly a few(10 or less) degrees at a time and
then wait a month or more to see if there is any noticeable effect
on the floor/wall above. I would get an estimate of the cost from a
contractor and use that as a negotiating tool to get a good portion
of that money credited at the time of closing.

He actually said 40 deg of twist/offset.. Some pics would be helpful.
I'm not sure how it's being measured either. If it is from vertical,
then I agree even 33 deg is a hell of a lot of twist. He said the inspector said
you could deal with 33 deg? What does deal with it mean? It's OK?
And 40 is, well almost 45 :)
And is this a joist that is still straight along it's run, but it
just like keeled over? Or by twist does he mean that the joist is
badly warped and not uniform?

And how on earth could it twist THAT MUCH?????

[willshak]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

A picture is worth a thousand wrong guesses.

[micky]

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:00 +0100, icb1977

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks

You think that's bad? I have two neighbors who are twisted.

as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.

[c***@snyder.on.ca]

Post by k***@attt.bizz
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:00 +0100, icb1977

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks

You think that's bad? I have two neighbors who are twisted.

as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.

As in "They ain't broke, but thet're badly bent"?
Twisted, but straight???
Twisted but not crooked??

[HerHusband]

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.

If you're not noticing any sagging or squeaking, I doubt the twisted joists
would be an issue. Especially if the two twisted joists aren't next to each
other.

You could cut some blocking to strengthen the floor and prevent further
twisting, but it might be tricky to match the twist of the joist. You would
probably cause more damage trying to straighten the joist.

If it's really an issue, you could simply add new "sister" joists next to
the twisted joists.

Good luck,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

[C***@work.com]

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:00 +0100, icb1977

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

Solution 1. Offer the value of the lot, and if it's accepted, tear the
house down and build a new one.

Solution 2. Dont buy it.

Solution 3. Add an extra joist between them, attach the floor boards to
the new joists, and get on with life. What you're gonna pay for the
structural engineer will likely surpass the cost of a few joists and the
labor to install them.

[micky]

Post by k***@attt.bizz
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 19:22:00 +0100, icb1977

We are looking at buying a new house and the house is in GREAT
condition, except there are two floor joists that are twisted. It looks
as if no support blocks between the joists were installed on these two
joists for some reason and as the house settled they twisted. There are
approximately 100 joists and these are the only two that twisted. The
floor above the joists feels solid. The wall above also shows no signs
of abnormal settling. We plan on having a structural engineer take a
look at it before purchase, but in the meantime we are uneasy and
anxious.
The home inspector said you can normally deal with 33% offset/twist, but
these were closer to 40%. He didn't think they were terrible, but
advised the structural engineer's inspection.
What are your thoughts? We are in panic mode a little bit right now.
We are set to close in 3 weeks and we LOVE the house and the
neighborhood. We will be devastated if this falls through.
Can we just brace them to prevent further twisting? Do you have to jack
and straighten them out? I know the engineer will better answer this,
but just looking for some info to get us through the next week and start
to prepare ourselves to walk away if necessary.

Solution 1. Offer the value of the lot, and if it's accepted, tear the
house down and build a new one.
Solution 2. Dont buy it.
Solution 3. Add an extra joist between them, attach the floor boards to
the new joists, and get on with life. What you're gonna pay for the
structural engineer will likely surpass the cost of a few joists and the
labor to install them.

I am curious how much he will charge. Are we talking 2 hours including
travel time, or a half day, or what?

But I'm curious in dollars, if the OP will tell us.

[C***@work.com]

Post by micky

Post by C***@work.com
Solution 3. Add an extra joist between them, attach the floor boards to
the new joists, and get on with life. What you're gonna pay for the
structural engineer will likely surpass the cost of a few joists and the
labor to install them.

I am curious how much he will charge. Are we talking 2 hours including
travel time, or a half day, or what?
But I'm curious in dollars, if the OP will tell us.

It's always a point of interest that the cost to hire someone to inspect
or evaluate something like that normally costs many times more than the
cost of someone to swing a hammer. It seems that operating a pen and
paper are more difficult than using tools. But thats the kind of world
we live in. Put the word "professional" in front of their title, and
you'll pay a lot more. It's not much different than paying $89 for a
pair of name brand blue jeans, when you can buy a nearly identical pair
of generic jeans for $19.

If that were my house, I'd add a few joists between the others and
forget about it. As long as the floors are relatively level and strong,
Why worry about it. Nothing is perfect. Adding a few joists will make
a stronger floor than is needed, since those twisted ones are still
doing a function, even if they look goofy.

We dont know the age of that house, but its' likely been that that way
since the house was built, and it appears nothing has been damaged as a
result. Every house has some problems, and this one seems pretty minor
if everything else is good.

[h***@sbcglobal.net]

The OP must need glasses, or someone to teach him/her about angles. That twisting is probably in the range of 10 degrees at the most, looking at the photos. Previous suggestions on how to straighten the joists out are correct.

I am more concerned about what appears to be a patch in the subflooring that shows up near what appears to be the exterior end of the joist. The new-looking plywood is clearly a patch, and I wonder whay the subfloor needed patching. Maybe moisture got in and rotted the original subfloor, and maybe that contributed to the twisting/warping. I would be more worried about the patch than I would be worried about the twisting.

[icb1977]

Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
The OP must need glasses, or someone to teach him/her about angles.
That twisting is probably in the range of 10 degrees at the most
looking at the photos. Previous suggestions on how to straighten th
joists out are correct.
I am more concerned about what appears to be a patch in the subfloorin
that shows up near what appears to be the exterior end of the joist.
The new-looking plywood is clearly a patch, and I wonder whay th
subfloor needed patching. Maybe moisture got in and rotted the origina
subfloor, and maybe that contributed to the twisting/warping. I woul
be more worried about the patch than I would be worried about th
twisting.

When I said 33 that was what the home inspector said and I don't believ
he was referring to the degree of the twist but rather how far off i
distance the joist is in relation to the thickness of the wood. Fo
example <33% of 2" is no concern. It was another poster that mentione
angles. I know that is definitely no greater than 20 degrees max fro
the 90 perpendicular.

The area is right under a sliding glass door so I thought maybe ther
was moisture problems. There are no watermarks on the joists or th
surrounding subfloor. Or on the foundation walls or ground either


--
icb1977