I learned a lot refilling 1-pound disposable propane canisters from 20-pound Flame King propane tank from a 500 gallon residential propane tank

[Patrick]

I cut open a non-refillable propane cylinder to see what is
inside.Loading Image...

There is no dip stick like there is in the Flame King refillables.
It has a reverse schrader valve (pull up to vent instead of pushing in).

Having never played with propane before, but being a curious fellow,
here's where I am in being able to refill propane at will at home.

1. I bought & tested the MH9BX 9K BTU Mr Heater Portable Buddy heater
https://www.mrheater.com/portable-buddy-heater.html
2. Plus the Home Depot Flame King 20 pound tank & Flame King refill kit
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-Three-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT-2CL/311513863
3. The 9K BTU heater uses canisters at the rate of about 3 hours on high
4. Paradoxically, the 4K BTU setting only lasts about 4 hours on low
5. Both throw plenty of heat into a typical bedroom with fireplace flu
6. Refilling cans takes only a couple of minutes & is super easy to do
Loading Image...
7. However, 2 of the 5 non-refillable tanks leaked so they were trashed
Loading Image...
8. One of them I cut open to see what it looked like inside the canister
https://i.postimg.cc/3JDwvCdf/20240121.jpg
9. The refillables come with the 5/32 allen key which makes bleeding easy
Loading Image...
10. But you pretty much need forceps to bleed the disposable canisters
Loading Image...
11. For both, it takes a couple of minutes to put in 16.4 ounces by weight
Loading Image...
12. I haven't yet sprung for the $250 hose to use to refill the 20 pounder
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

It's much easier (and safer) to bleed the refillables for a variety of
reasons, one of which is the venting of vapor (-40 degrees!) is to the side
instead of upward, which is important because you have to use forceps to
pull up on the schrader valve of the disposables unless you have 90-degree
forceps, which I don't have (yet) to keep your hands out of the way.

The refillable Flame King one pound propane tanks have a dip tube
controlled by a 5/32 Allen key which vents the -40 degree liquid sidewise.

Also the refillable one pound propane tanks are built much sturdier even as
both have a pressure relief valve set to blow the tank at about 375 psig.

The disposables are about 0.812 pounds completely empty while the sturdier
refillable Flame King tanks are about 1.4 pounds completely empty.

The cost for propane is about $3/gallon to fill the residential 500-gallon
propane tank and about $4/gallon to refill the 20 pound propane tank at
U-Haul but about $25/gallon to buy the disposable tanks already filled.
Loading Image...

One question I have is what do all those stamps mean on pressure tanks?
Here's the best I can do so far in deciphering the secret decoder ring.

Flame King Foot Ring FK#2 sticker 855183 1.40 Lbs.
1. DOT 4BA 240 (Dept of Transportation specification)
2. TC-4BAM16 (Transport Canada specification)
3. M0102 (Sahamitr Pressure Container Public Co., Ltd. SMPC)
4. TW 1.4 Lbs. T 0.6 Kg. (Tare Weight)
5. 12A22 (Manufactured 12/2022 tested by "A", recertify after 12 years)
6. NO. 855183 (Serial Number unique to each cylinder)
7. DT 43 MM. DT 1.7" (Dip Tube to 80% level)
8. WC. 1.1 L. WC. 2.5 Lbs. (Water Capacity)
9. Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9 (with 5/32 allen bleed bolt)

Flame King Foot Ring FK#3 sticker 861601 1.40 Lbs.
1. DOT 4BA 240 (Dept of Transportation specification)
2. TC-4BAM16 (Transport Canada specification)
3. M0102 (Sahamitr Pressure Container Public Co., Ltd. SMPC)
4. TW 1.4 Lbs. T 0.6 Kg. (Tare Weight)
5. 12A22 (Manufactured 12/2022 tested by "A", recertify after 12 years)
6. NO. 861601 (Serial Number unique to each cylinder)
7. DT 43 MM. DT 1.7" (Dip Tube to 80% level)
8. WC. 1.1 L. WC. 2.5 Lbs. (Water Capacity)
9. Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9 (with 5/32 allen bleed bolt)

Flame King Foot Ring FK#3 sticker 861601 1.40 Lbs.
1. DOT 4BA 240 (Dept of Transportation specification)
2. TC-4BAM16 (Transport Canada specification)
3. M0102 (Sahamitr Pressure Container Public Co., Ltd. SMPC)
4. TW 1.4 Lbs. T 0.6 Kg. (Tare Weight)
5. 12A22 (Manufactured 12/2022 tested by "A", recertify after 12 years)
6. NO. 861601 (Serial Number unique to each cylinder)
7. DT 43 MM. DT 1.7" (Dip Tube to 80% level)
8. WC. 1.1 L. WC. 2.5 Lbs. (Water Capacity)
9. Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9 (with 5/32 allen bleed bolt)

On the Coleman & ACE disposable tanks, it's hard to make out the printed
number on the top but on the label is printed the following information.

Coleman Net Weight 16 OZ./ 453g (1 lb.)
DOT-39 NRC 232/290 M1110
C.A.S. No. 74-98-6 UN 1075

The tradeoffs are such that propane heating for a typical bedroom is about
half the cost and twice as fast but a little more dangerous due to the open
flame and (if not managed properly) the oxygen and carbon monoxide risk.

Given a one pound tank only lasts three or four hours, I keep a timer on
the computer & on the phone to keep track of how long each canister lasts.
http://www.xnotestopwatch.com/
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.kodarkooperativet.notificationstopwatch/

Since the one-pound refillables are about $20 each (empty) and the
one-pound disposables are about $6 each (filled), it takes about three or
four refills to break even (maybe five counting the cost of the refiller).

By the end of the winter I will definitely be in the positive money in
terms of saving on costs, but it's harder to justify the $250 Nash hose.

Refilling one pounders costs about $1/pound for propane at about $4/gallon,
versus about $25/gallon for the disposable tanks, but refilling the 20
pounder only saves about $5 per refill (because the residential tank
propane is only about $1/gallon less expensive in bulk).

Ignoring the sheer joyous value of convenience, it's harder to justify the
50 refills necessary on the 20 pound tanks to justify the Nash Fuel hose.
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

If you know of a cheaper hose than the Nash Fuel hose to refill propane
from the propane tank, that would change the situation, as it's just a hose
in the end, with the proper fittings and safety features, which must be
available as a DIY project somewhere I would think.

If I could make my own hoses from safe parts, and get the cost down to less
than about a hundred dollars, it would begin to be worth making a DIY hose.

Any ideas for a safe but less expensive DIY milk nurse lactating hose?

[rbowman]

Post by Patrick
12. I haven't yet sprung for the $250 hose to use to refill the 20 pounder
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

Before you get too excited:

https://www.propane101.com/liquidwithdrawalvalve.htm

That's the little photo on the Nash site. Make sure you have one. Also,
your propane company might not be too happy with you screwing around with
it. When you launch the 500 gallon tank into low earth orbit they may be
worried about liability.

Personally I use the 20# tank with a regulator/filter and hose.

https://www.mrheater.com/12ft-big-buddy-hose-with-regulator.html

You've already went down the Flame King router but this would be as cheap
if not cheaper and not give you a new hobby of filling cannisters and
timing them.

[Snag]

Post by rbowman

Post by Patrick
12. I haven't yet sprung for the $250 hose to use to refill the 20 pounder
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

https://www.propane101.com/liquidwithdrawalvalve.htm
That's the little photo on the Nash site. Make sure you have one. Also,
your propane company might not be too happy with you screwing around with
it. When you launch the 500 gallon tank into low earth orbit they may be
worried about liability.
Personally I use the 20# tank with a regulator/filter and hose.
https://www.mrheater.com/12ft-big-buddy-hose-with-regulator.html
You've already went down the Flame King router but this would be as cheap
if not cheaper and not give you a new hobby of filling cannisters and
timing them.

I fill a few disposables for torches and maybe a lantern . For
heating , I've got one that goes on a 20/30/100 cylinder that's dandy
for heating the shop . Takes a while if it's 8 below but it'll get there .

[Peeler]

On 22 Jan 2024 03:37:37 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

Post by rbowman

Post by Patrick
12. I haven't yet sprung for the $250 hose to use to refill the 20 pounder
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

https://www.propane101.com/liquidwithdrawalvalve.htm
That's the little photo on the Nash site. Make sure you have one. Also,
your propane company might not be too happy with you screwing around with
it. When you launch the 500 gallon tank into low earth orbit they may be
worried about liability.

More drama from the resident drama queen and braggart. LOL
--
More of the resident bigmouth's usual idiotic babble and gossip:
I'm not saying my father and uncle wouldn't have drank Genesee beer
without Miss Genny but it certainly didn't hurt. Stanton's was the
hometown brewery but it closed in '50. There was a Schaefer brewery in
Albany but their product was considered a step up from cat piss.

My preference was Rheingold on tap"

MID: <***@mid.individual.net>

[Patrick]

On 22 Jan 2024 03:37:37 GMT, rbowman wrote:
rbowman wrote on 21.01.2024 21:37>>
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

Post by rbowman
https://www.propane101.com/liquidwithdrawalvalve.htm

I'm happy you noticed how excited I am as I love the power to be able to
do, at home, what most people would be afraid to do, so they lose out.

My 500-gallon residential propane tank doesn't seem to have one of those
"nursing" valves on the top (which would have a long dipstick going to the
bottom of the tank to allow liquid to flow up & out by the pressure alone).

"The liquid withdrawal valve is attached to the tank and itself is in the
vapor space.The diptube that reaches the bottom of the tank is in direct
communication with the liquid space of the propane tank which allows it to
be used for liquid propane service or liquid withdrawal."

At the bottom of the tank is the valve that I need to use to get liquid.
Loading Image...

Post by rbowman
That's the little photo on the Nash site. Make sure you have one. Also,
your propane company might not be too happy with you screwing around with
it. When you launch the 500 gallon tank into low earth orbit they may be
worried about liability.

My tank came with the house and is owned by the house so there is no
specific propane company. I can order from any propane company around.

Post by rbowman
Personally I use the 20# tank with a regulator/filter and hose.
https://www.mrheater.com/12ft-big-buddy-hose-with-regulator.html

Yes. I have that hose & regulator. Mine is only 10 feet though, not 12.
But it's too hard to move the heater when the 20 pound tank is attached.

I learned from this newsgroup that the rubber hose leaches goop which clogs
up the Mr Heater Portable Buddy heater. But I don't have the filter yet.

BTW, how often do you replace the filter? The Mr. Buddy web site says the
filter should be replaced yearly, but of course that depends on usage.

Post by rbowman
You've already went down the Flame King route but this would be as cheap
if not cheaper and not give you a new hobby of filling cannisters and
timing them.

I agree that the initial cost is high for the refillable propane canisters.
But it's much easier to move the portable heater with the one pound cans.

Luckily they're easy to refill although non-refillables aren't hard to
re-fill - but in my tests of five refillables, two of them already leaked.

The best price I can find for the FK refillable one pound cans is this.
https://www.costco.com/flame-king-refillable-1-lb-empty-propane-cylinder-tank%2C-3-pack.product.100678586.html

That's $40 for 3 although 2 refillable Flame King canisters come with this.
https://www.costco.com/flame-king-refillable-1lb.-empty-propane-cylinder-tank-16.4-oz%2C-2-pack---with-refill-kit.product.100679019.html

But they're always out of stock so you realistically have to buy from HD.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-Three-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT-2CL/311513863

[Bob F]

Post by Patrick
rbowman wrote on 21.01.2024 21:37>>
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

Post by rbowman
https://www.propane101.com/liquidwithdrawalvalve.htm

I'm happy you noticed how excited I am as I love the power to be able to
do, at home, what most people would be afraid to do, so they lose out.
My 500-gallon residential propane tank doesn't seem to have one of those
"nursing" valves on the top (which would have a long dipstick going to the
bottom of the tank to allow liquid to flow up & out by the pressure alone).
"The liquid withdrawal valve is attached to the tank and itself is in the
vapor space.The diptube that reaches the bottom of the tank is in direct
communication with the liquid space of the propane tank which allows it to
be used for liquid propane service or liquid withdrawal."
At the bottom of the tank is the valve that I need to use to get liquid.
https://i.postimg.cc/6q7x1nWg/500gallon-tank-drain-valve.jpg

That looks more like a plug than a valve to me. If so, you would have to
empty the tank install a valve there.

[Patrick]

Post by Bob F

Post by Patrick
At the bottom of the tank is the valve that I need to use to get liquid.
https://i.postimg.cc/6q7x1nWg/500gallon-tank-drain-valve.jpg

That looks more like a plug than a valve to me. If so, you would have to
empty the tank install a valve there.

It does look like a plug. I agree with you. But I'm told no tank is made
without a liquid check valve but I do not know if that's actually correct.

[rbowman]

Post by Patrick
BTW, how often do you replace the filter? The Mr. Buddy web site says
the filter should be replaced yearly, but of course that depends on
usage.

So far I haven't. It's last resort backup for the house since I have a gas
oven if the power is out. A couple of years ago the tank gauge stuck at
50. I was suspicious and when it fell to 0 after a few swift kicks I
figured I was screwed so I dragged it in from the shed. I will admit
moving the heater, tank, and hose as one unit is awkward but I don't move
it around inside.

Other than that I use it in the shed and it hasn't had much use. I
recently had cataracts removed so I can actual see gun sights so I'll ramp
up the reloading and get more use out of it.

[Snag]

Post by rbowman

Post by Patrick
BTW, how often do you replace the filter? The Mr. Buddy web site says
the filter should be replaced yearly, but of course that depends on
usage.

So far I haven't. It's last resort backup for the house since I have a gas
oven if the power is out. A couple of years ago the tank gauge stuck at
50. I was suspicious and when it fell to 0 after a few swift kicks I
figured I was screwed so I dragged it in from the shed. I will admit
moving the heater, tank, and hose as one unit is awkward but I don't move
it around inside.
Other than that I use it in the shed and it hasn't had much use. I
recently had cataracts removed so I can actual see gun sights so I'll ramp
up the reloading and get more use out of it.

If you haven't priced reloading supplies lately be prepared for some
serious sticker shock .

[Ralph Mowery]

Post by rbowman
Other than that I use it in the shed and it hasn't had much use. I

Post by rbowman
recently had cataracts removed so I can actual see gun sights so I'll ramp
up the reloading and get more use out of it.

If you haven't priced reloading supplies lately be prepared for some
serious sticker shock .
--
Snag

You can say that again about the reloading supplies, or any amunition
for that matter. I had bought a lot before the big jump in prices and
have not had the time to do much shooting in the last few years s hae
not bought anything but a few boxes of the Hornady ammo that I have not
seen any bullets with the 'plastic' in the hollow point as seperate
components. I lucked out and bought a bunch (for me) of loaded ammo for
about what I could load the stuff for just before the big jump in price.
Seems that the companies had a big sell on stuff as they were almost
giving it away.

[rbowman]

Post by Snag
If you haven't priced reloading supplies lately be prepared for some
serious sticker shock .

Fortunately I have some on hand. I may need bullets. My former supplier,
Dardas Cast Bullets, is out of business so I may go back to Berry's.

While rooting around I found a tray of primers that I must have bought as
a single in another century. Looking at the price sticker I was ready to
cry. Back in the '80s I'd make .357 practice rounds with only a primer and
a wax plug when primers were dirt cheap. Then came Clinton.

The good old days... I used to stop on my way home from work Friday night
and pick up a box of CCI .22 LR. Sportsmans Warehouse had them stacked on
a pallet, $19.95 for 525. Like everything else the last time I bought .22s
the price was about the same but the count was down to 300 rounds.

[Peeler]

On 24 Jan 2024 16:15:04 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

Post by rbowman
Fortunately I have some on hand. I may need bullets. My former supplier,
Dardas Cast Bullets, is out of business so I may go back to Berry's.
While rooting around I found a tray of primers that I must have bought as
a single in another century. Looking at the price sticker I was ready to
cry. Back in the '80s I'd make .357 practice rounds with only a primer and
a wax plug when primers were dirt cheap. Then came Clinton.
The good old days... I used to stop on my way home from work Friday night
and pick up a box of CCI .22 LR. Sportsmans Warehouse had them stacked on
a pallet, $19.95 for 525. Like everything else the last time I bought .22s
the price was about the same but the count was down to 300 rounds.

As fantastic stable genius Stumpie would say: "You're a fantastic person!"

[Frank]

Post by rbowman

Post by Snag
If you haven't priced reloading supplies lately be prepared for some
serious sticker shock .

Fortunately I have some on hand. I may need bullets. My former supplier,
Dardas Cast Bullets, is out of business so I may go back to Berry's.
While rooting around I found a tray of primers that I must have bought as
a single in another century. Looking at the price sticker I was ready to
cry. Back in the '80s I'd make .357 practice rounds with only a primer and
a wax plug when primers were dirt cheap. Then came Clinton.
The good old days... I used to stop on my way home from work Friday night
and pick up a box of CCI .22 LR. Sportsmans Warehouse had them stacked on
a pallet, $19.95 for 525. Like everything else the last time I bought .22s
the price was about the same but the count was down to 300 rounds.

I get bullets from SNS Casting:

https://www.snscasting.com/

They ship in the USPS boxes for low price.

I do not shoot as much now but a few months ago paid through the nose
for a thousand small pistol primers with HAZMAT fee.

Supplies had dried up under Obama but I snagged 5,000 large pistol
commie primers that even with HAZMAT were cheaper than US.

Might also mention that only pistol powder I could find then was Hodgdon
Titegroup Powder. Now that is all I use for target loads as much less
powder is needed.

Mentioned I ordered small propane cylinders from Cabela's set to arrive
today with HAZMET fee but today found at Walmart even cheaper. When
checked on line they said they had none but there was a load at the store.

[Ralph Mowery]

Post by Frank
https://www.snscasting.com/
They ship in the USPS boxes for low price.
I do not shoot as much now but a few months ago paid through the nose
for a thousand small pistol primers with HAZMAT fee.
Supplies had dried up under Obama but I snagged 5,000 large pistol
commie primers that even with HAZMAT were cheaper than US.
Might also mention that only pistol powder I could find then was Hodgdon
Titegroup Powder. Now that is all I use for target loads as much less
powder is needed.

The bullets are not that bad but the powder and primers are, especially
if you have to add in the HAZMAT fees.
To get around that is about all I have gone to gun shows for in many
years.

[Snag]

Post by Ralph Mowery

Post by Frank
https://www.snscasting.com/
They ship in the USPS boxes for low price.
I do not shoot as much now but a few months ago paid through the nose
for a thousand small pistol primers with HAZMAT fee.
Supplies had dried up under Obama but I snagged 5,000 large pistol
commie primers that even with HAZMAT were cheaper than US.
Might also mention that only pistol powder I could find then was Hodgdon
Titegroup Powder. Now that is all I use for target loads as much less
powder is needed.

The bullets are not that bad but the powder and primers are, especially
if you have to add in the HAZMAT fees.
To get around that is about all I have gone to gun shows for in many
years.

I've been buying primers and powder at a couple of gun shops in a
small city about 50 miles away . I buy my liquor in the same town ... I
buy non-hazmat stuff from the gun shop here in town .

[rbowman]

Post by Ralph Mowery
The bullets are not that bad but the powder and primers are, especially
if you have to add in the HAZMAT fees.
To get around that is about all I have gone to gun shows for in many
years.

The local gun show has turned into an over-crowded antique show with a few
guns. The last time I bothered was to get an AK bayonet. They weren't the
most polished things when they rolled off the assembly line and it helps
to pick the best of the litter in person.

[Peeler]

On 25 Jan 2024 03:07:31 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

Post by rbowman
The local gun show has turned into an over-crowded antique show with a few
guns. The last time I bothered was to get an AK bayonet. They weren't the
most polished things when they rolled off the assembly line and it helps
to pick the best of the litter in person.

I wonder what role does your big mouth play in that scenario. <G>

[rbowman]

Post by Frank
https://www.snscasting.com/
They ship in the USPS boxes for low price.

I'll have to try them. How does the coating work? Dardas did the flat
rate USPS boxes too. You can get close to 50 pounds of lead in one of
those little boxes. The postal service must love that.

Post by Frank
Supplies had dried up under Obama but I snagged 5,000 large pistol
commie primers that even with HAZMAT were cheaper than US.

I've never had a problem with Wolf primers. I don't think they've used
Tula in a while because of the sanctions.

Post by Frank
Might also mention that only pistol powder I could find then was Hodgdon
Titegroup Powder. Now that is all I use for target loads as much less
powder is needed.

I went back to my recipe books from the '80s. You don't see it in the
charts anymore but Herco works fine for 9mm. I think I scored some HP38
too. I've got to do an inventory.

[Snag]

Post by rbowman

Post by Frank
https://www.snscasting.com/
They ship in the USPS boxes for low price.

I'll have to try them. How does the coating work? Dardas did the flat
rate USPS boxes too. You can get close to 50 pounds of lead in one of
those little boxes. The postal service must love that.

Post by Frank
Supplies had dried up under Obama but I snagged 5,000 large pistol
commie primers that even with HAZMAT were cheaper than US.

I've never had a problem with Wolf primers. I don't think they've used
Tula in a while because of the sanctions.

Post by Frank
Might also mention that only pistol powder I could find then was Hodgdon
Titegroup Powder. Now that is all I use for target loads as much less
powder is needed.

I went back to my recipe books from the '80s. You don't see it in the
charts anymore but Herco works fine for 9mm. I think I scored some HP38
too. I've got to do an inventory.

I like Unique for .38 Spl and .45 ACP . Some of the magnum pistol
powders make great sub velocity loads for cast bullets in 30-06 and
other rifle cartridges .

[Peeler]

On 25 Jan 2024 03:04:50 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

Post by rbowman
I went back to my recipe books from the '80s. You don't see it in the
charts anymore but Herco works fine for 9mm. I think I scored some HP38
too. I've got to do an inventory.

I think you are doing fine, gossip girl. Someone with a big mouth like you
have it, should always be on guard against people who might feel irritated
by your big mouth. LOL

[Snag]

Post by rbowman

Post by Snag
If you haven't priced reloading supplies lately be prepared for some
serious sticker shock .

Fortunately I have some on hand. I may need bullets. My former supplier,
Dardas Cast Bullets, is out of business so I may go back to Berry's.
While rooting around I found a tray of primers that I must have bought as
a single in another century. Looking at the price sticker I was ready to
cry. Back in the '80s I'd make .357 practice rounds with only a primer and
a wax plug when primers were dirt cheap. Then came Clinton.
The good old days... I used to stop on my way home from work Friday night
and pick up a box of CCI .22 LR. Sportsmans Warehouse had them stacked on
a pallet, $19.95 for 525. Like everything else the last time I bought .22s
the price was about the same but the count was down to 300 rounds.

I recently scored a few boxes of .22lr for a dime a round ... and
I've seen it going for twice that . I can also remember a time it was a
penny a round . These are meant to be "trade goods" when shit goes south .

[Patrick]

Post by rbowman

Post by Patrick
BTW, how often do you replace the filter? The Mr. Buddy web site says
the filter should be replaced yearly, but of course that depends on
usage.

So far I haven't.

Thanks for your advice.

A funny thing happened when I looked at my hose to check sizes, where I
already have the filter screwed onto the end as it came with the kit.
Loading Image...

Post by rbowman
It's last resort backup for the house since I have a gas
oven if the power is out.

The problem I found out the hard way is if you use the 20 pound tank on
some equipment (like a generator) which sips a lot of fuel, it will freeze
at the bottom and form frost up to the liquid line (if the air is humid).

Obviously freezing to the floor and dripping on it is a problem indoors.
The small canister gets cold, but it doesn't form frost or touch the floor.

Post by rbowman
A couple of years ago the tank gauge stuck at
50. I was suspicious and when it fell to 0 after a few swift kicks I
figured I was screwed so I dragged it in from the shed.

I'm still trying to make sense of how that meter works as it's kind of like
a car cooling system temperature gauge where it moves slowly most of the
time but then it moves fast in the last few bits of the remaining fuel.

Post by rbowman
I will admit
moving the heater, tank, and hose as one unit is awkward but I don't move
it around inside.

It's not so much that the big tank and hose is awkward as the little tank
is so much easier to move - and - I kept tripping over the hose.

Of course, I put the heater between my legs under the desk, so that's a
problem where had I put it in the middle of the room it wouldn't have been.

Post by rbowman
Other than that I use it in the shed and it hasn't had much use.

I'm using the heater every day as it's twice as fast and half the cost of
my 1500 Watt electric heater (which is safer & even easier to use).

Post by rbowman
I
recently had cataracts removed so I can actual see gun sights so I'll ramp
up the reloading and get more use out of it.

Good for you. I can see how the propane heaters are best for airy places
like sheds and garages more so than in closed quarters like RVs & bedrooms.

What I love though is being able to refill the one pound canisters at home.
My next project will be to try to source the parts for the Nash Fuel hose.
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

Since all the parts are standard, I'm hoping to source the parts for
somewhere around fifty to a hundred bucks, which I can justify to the boss.

I was hoping to find someone who has already made their own propane liquid
transfer hose because it's really only three parts:
a. the hose has to handle the pressure & the -40 degrees
b. the adapter for the nurse tank has to be the correct threads
c. the deadman shutoff adapter for the 20-pound propane tank

I have to figure out the required thread types as I see a whole bunch of
standards out there such as LCC27, POL, ACME, OPD, QCC, CGA-600, etc.

If someone has already figured out how to source those parts, that would
work out well. I'm wondering if a normal black gas pipe will work but
probably not because it will be at -40 degrees boiling temperature.

I was wondering if a yellow flexible gas line would work but also probably
not because it probably can't handle the pressure of the liquid propane.

[Peeler]

On 24 Jan 2024 04:49:16 GMT, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,

Post by rbowman
So far I haven't. It's last resort backup for the house since I have a gas
oven if the power is out.

It's not really about the "filter", it's about YOU and your grand
personality again, you pathological self-admiring senile bigmouth! Right?
LOL

<FLUSH rest of the usual grandiloquent blather unread again>

[Frank]

Post by Patrick
I cut open a non-refillable propane cylinder to see what is
inside.https://i.postimg.cc/3JDwvCdf/20240121.jpg
There is no dip stick like there is in the Flame King refillables.
It has a reverse schrader valve (pull up to vent instead of pushing in).
Having never played with propane before, but being a curious fellow,
here's where I am in being able to refill propane at will at home.
1. I bought & tested the MH9BX 9K BTU Mr Heater Portable Buddy heater
  https://www.mrheater.com/portable-buddy-heater.html
2. Plus the Home Depot Flame King 20 pound tank & Flame King refill kit
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-Three-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT-2CL/311513863
3. The 9K BTU heater uses canisters at the rate of about 3 hours on high
4. Paradoxically, the 4K BTU setting only lasts about 4 hours on low
5. Both throw plenty of heat into a typical bedroom with fireplace flu
6. Refilling cans takes only a couple of minutes & is super easy to do
  https://i.postimg.cc/vBgWxx9r/20240120.jpg
7. However, 2 of the 5 non-refillable tanks leaked so they were trashed
  https://i.postimg.cc/qqCVFwKN/20240119.jpg
8. One of them I cut open to see what it looked like inside the canister
  https://i.postimg.cc/3JDwvCdf/20240121.jpg
9. The refillables come with the 5/32 allen key which makes bleeding easy
  https://i.postimg.cc/7hDPSjdx/20240118.jpg
10. But you pretty much need forceps to bleed the disposable canisters
   https://i.postimg.cc/8ktshzp9/20240117.jpg
11. For both, it takes a couple of minutes to put in 16.4 ounces by weight
   https://i.postimg.cc/R07ZqMpP/20240116.jpg
12. I haven't yet sprung for the $250 hose to use to refill the 20 pounder
   https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol
It's much easier (and safer) to bleed the refillables for a variety of
reasons, one of which is the venting of vapor (-40 degrees!) is to the side
instead of upward, which is important because you have to use forceps to
pull up on the schrader valve of the disposables unless you have 90-degree
forceps, which I don't have (yet) to keep your hands out of the way.
The refillable Flame King one pound propane tanks have a dip tube
controlled by a 5/32 Allen key which vents the -40 degree liquid sidewise.
Also the refillable one pound propane tanks are built much sturdier even as
both have a pressure relief valve set to blow the tank at about 375 psig.
The disposables are about 0.812 pounds completely empty while the sturdier
refillable Flame King tanks are about 1.4 pounds completely empty.
The cost for propane is about $3/gallon to fill the residential 500-gallon
propane tank and about $4/gallon to refill the 20 pound propane tank at
U-Haul but about $25/gallon to buy the disposable tanks already filled.
https://i.postimg.cc/YSjqnCN8/20240115.jpg
One question I have is what do all those stamps mean on pressure tanks?
Here's the best I can do so far in deciphering the secret decoder ring.
Flame King Foot Ring FK#2 sticker 855183 1.40 Lbs.
1. DOT 4BA 240 (Dept of Transportation specification)
2. TC-4BAM16 (Transport Canada specification)
3. M0102 (Sahamitr Pressure Container Public Co., Ltd. SMPC)
4. TW 1.4 Lbs. T 0.6 Kg. (Tare Weight) 5. 12A22 (Manufactured 12/2022
tested by "A", recertify after 12 years)
6. NO. 855183 (Serial Number unique to each cylinder)
7. DT 43 MM. DT 1.7" (Dip Tube to 80% level)
8. WC. 1.1 L. WC. 2.5 Lbs. (Water Capacity)
9. Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9 (with 5/32 allen bleed bolt)
Flame King Foot Ring FK#3 sticker 861601 1.40 Lbs.
1. DOT 4BA 240 (Dept of Transportation specification)
2. TC-4BAM16 (Transport Canada specification)
3. M0102 (Sahamitr Pressure Container Public Co., Ltd. SMPC)
4. TW 1.4 Lbs. T 0.6 Kg. (Tare Weight) 5. 12A22 (Manufactured 12/2022
tested by "A", recertify after 12 years)
6. NO. 861601 (Serial Number unique to each cylinder)
7. DT 43 MM. DT 1.7" (Dip Tube to 80% level)
8. WC. 1.1 L. WC. 2.5 Lbs. (Water Capacity)
9. Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9 (with 5/32 allen bleed bolt)
Flame King Foot Ring FK#3 sticker 861601 1.40 Lbs.
1. DOT 4BA 240 (Dept of Transportation specification)
2. TC-4BAM16 (Transport Canada specification)
3. M0102 (Sahamitr Pressure Container Public Co., Ltd. SMPC)
4. TW 1.4 Lbs. T 0.6 Kg. (Tare Weight) 5. 12A22 (Manufactured 12/2022
tested by "A", recertify after 12 years)
6. NO. 861601 (Serial Number unique to each cylinder)
7. DT 43 MM. DT 1.7" (Dip Tube to 80% level)
8. WC. 1.1 L. WC. 2.5 Lbs. (Water Capacity)
9. Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9 (with 5/32 allen bleed bolt)
On the Coleman & ACE disposable tanks, it's hard to make out the printed
number on the top but on the label is printed the following information.
Coleman Net Weight 16 OZ./ 453g (1 lb.)
DOT-39 NRC 232/290 M1110
C.A.S. No. 74-98-6 UN 1075
The tradeoffs are such that propane heating for a typical bedroom is about
half the cost and twice as fast but a little more dangerous due to the
open flame and (if not managed properly) the oxygen and carbon monoxide
risk.
Given a one pound tank only lasts three or four hours, I keep a timer on
the computer & on the phone to keep track of how long each canister lasts.
http://www.xnotestopwatch.com/
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.kodarkooperativet.notificationstopwatch/
Since the one-pound refillables are about $20 each (empty) and the
one-pound disposables are about $6 each (filled), it takes about three or
four refills to break even (maybe five counting the cost of the refiller).
By the end of the winter I will definitely be in the positive money in
terms of saving on costs, but it's harder to justify the $250 Nash hose.
Refilling one pounders costs about $1/pound for propane at about $4/gallon,
versus about $25/gallon for the disposable tanks, but refilling the 20
pounder only saves about $5 per refill (because the residential tank
propane is only about $1/gallon less expensive in bulk).
Ignoring the sheer joyous value of convenience, it's harder to justify the
50 refills necessary on the 20 pound tanks to justify the Nash Fuel hose.
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol
If you know of a cheaper hose than the Nash Fuel hose to refill propane
from the propane tank, that would change the situation, as it's just a hose
in the end, with the proper fittings and safety features, which must be
available as a DIY project somewhere I would think.
If I could make my own hoses from safe parts, and get the cost down to less
than about a hundred dollars, it would begin to be worth making a DIY hose.
Any ideas for a safe but less expensive DIY milk nurse lactating hose?

Good write-up. I just used the portable buddy heater our son had gifted
us last week when a storm took our our power for 2 days. It worked very
nicely but one pound propane tank only lasts about 4 hours on low.
Local hardware store only had one tank as they were selling out.

I just ordered a second heater from Cabela's for $74.98 and see it is
available at Walmart and Amazon for the same price. Also ordered small
propane tanks but found there is a hazmat shipping fee. I would not
have done this and looked locally but happened to have points on my
Cabela's credit card to use up.

[Patrick]

Post by Frank
Good write-up.

Thanks for noticing I put the extra detail so that anyone else can make a
better (or at least quicker) decision than I was able to make not knowing
anything at the start and having to learn it all by making many mistakes.

Post by Frank
I just used the portable buddy heater our son had gifted
us last week when a storm took our our power for 2 days. It worked very
nicely but one pound propane tank only lasts about 4 hours on low.

Yup. I get about 4 hours on low and about 3 hours on high which isn't
anywhere near what the manufacturer advertises. I would say it's illegal
what the manufacturer advertises, but it's the same when I refill my
sodastream tanks from my 5 pound carbon dioxide tank that nobody gets
anywhere near the usage that the manufacturer claims.

How they're able to lie so openly is beyond me. It seems like a Volkswagon
thing, where the lies are so obvious that anyone testing would find them.

Post by Frank
Local hardware store only had one tank as they were selling out.

Local Home Depot has the filled disposables at about $6 each and the local
ACE Hardware is even more than that. The HD price nets about $25/gallon.

My residential fuel is $3/gallon and the refilling at U-Haul is about
$4/gallon so paying $25/gallon is a pretty steep cost for convenience.

Plus it's a crime for the environment, where I hear Democrats (and
Republicans) cry about the environment, but then they buy disposable
everything and they don't fix anything so they're all inveterate liars.

Post by Frank
I just ordered a second heater from Cabela's for $74.98 and see it is
available at Walmart and Amazon for the same price. Also ordered small
propane tanks but found there is a hazmat shipping fee.

Wow. A local Hazmat fee? Some of the local propane suppliers for my 500
gallon residential tank charge a $20/delivery hazmat fee but others don't.

If cost is an issue, I'd get the three refillable tanks for $13.33 each
(plus tax & shipping) which arrive empty so there can't be a hazmat fee.
https://www.costco.com/flame-king-refillable-1-lb-empty-propane-cylinder-tank%2C-3-pack.product.100678586.html

That's only about double what it costs at my local ACE hardware store
for the filled refillables, where the propane is about $1 per canister.

I can vouch for how easy it is to refill the one pound canisters, where if
you follow the directions, is as safe as anything you do as a DIY at home.

So your first tank, filled, costs you $14 but the next costs only $1 which
you can keep doing forever (or until the canister needs to be recertified).

Actually, it doesn't matter that the canister needs to be recertified,
because I don't know anyone who will fill them, even when they're new.

So the only thing that happens after 12 years is you can't transport them.

Post by Frank
I would not
have done this and looked locally but happened to have points on my
Cabela's credit card to use up.

I still would like to ask if anyone knows of a safe but less expensive DIY
hose and fittings since these are all standard across the entire world.
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

Also, I couldn't find what all these markings mean on the Flame King valve.
Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9

The DT is the Dip Tube (for the 5/32 allen bleeder valve).
The "FK" is probably Flame King.

But what do the rest of the markings indicate?

[Frank]

Post by Patrick

Post by Frank
Good write-up.

Thanks for noticing I put the extra detail so that anyone else can make a
better (or at least quicker) decision than I was able to make not knowing
anything at the start and having to learn it all by making many mistakes.

Post by Frank
I just used the portable buddy heater our son had gifted us last week
when a storm took our our power for 2 days.  It worked very nicely but
one pound propane tank only lasts about 4 hours on low.

Yup. I get about 4 hours on low and about 3 hours on high which isn't
anywhere near what the manufacturer advertises. I would say it's illegal
what the manufacturer advertises, but it's the same when I refill my
sodastream tanks from my 5 pound carbon dioxide tank that nobody gets
anywhere near the usage that the manufacturer claims.
How they're able to lie so openly is beyond me. It seems like a Volkswagon
thing, where the lies are so obvious that anyone testing would find them.

Post by Frank
Local hardware store only had one tank as they were selling out.

Local Home Depot has the filled disposables at about $6 each and the local
ACE Hardware is even more than that. The HD price nets about $25/gallon.
My residential fuel is $3/gallon and the refilling at U-Haul is about
$4/gallon so paying $25/gallon is a pretty steep cost for convenience.
Plus it's a crime for the environment, where I hear Democrats (and
Republicans) cry about the environment, but then they buy disposable
everything and they don't fix anything so they're all inveterate liars.

Post by Frank
I just ordered a second heater from Cabela's for $74.98 and see it is
available at Walmart and Amazon for the same price.  Also ordered
small propane tanks but found there is a hazmat shipping fee.

Wow. A local Hazmat fee? Some of the local propane suppliers for my 500
gallon residential tank charge a $20/delivery hazmat fee but others don't.
If cost is an issue, I'd get the three refillable tanks for $13.33 each
(plus tax & shipping) which arrive empty so there can't be a hazmat fee.
https://www.costco.com/flame-king-refillable-1-lb-empty-propane-cylinder-tank%2C-3-pack.product.100678586.html
That's only about double what it costs at my local ACE hardware store
for the filled refillables, where the propane is about $1 per canister.
I can vouch for how easy it is to refill the one pound canisters, where if
you follow the directions, is as safe as anything you do as a DIY at home.
So your first tank, filled, costs you $14 but the next costs only $1 which
you can keep doing forever (or until the canister needs to be recertified).
Actually, it doesn't matter that the canister needs to be recertified,
because I don't know anyone who will fill them, even when they're new.
So the only thing that happens after 12 years is you can't transport them.

Post by Frank
I would not have done this and looked locally but happened to have
points on my Cabela's credit card to use up.

I still would like to ask if anyone knows of a safe but less expensive DIY
hose and fittings since these are all standard across the entire world.
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol
Also, I couldn't find what all these markings mean on the Flame King valve.
Brass valve 22-45FK 11088H (UL) DT 1.9
The DT is the Dip Tube (for the 5/32 allen bleeder valve).
The "FK" is probably Flame King.
But what do the rest of the markings indicate?

Today the 4 pack of l lb. cylinders at Walmart was $18 and also my
second heater arrived.

We are just keeping these things on standby in case we have another long
power failure in cold weather.

I have a 6,000 or so watt gasoline generator that previously could
handle my oil furnace but we had to replace the furnace as described
elsewhere with a heat pump and I cannot handle it.

We were considering a whole house generator but that could set us back
$20,000 and wife does not want a large propane tank in our back yard.
Whole house generator at full use can use up to 4 gallons of propane per
hour. We live on a hill and in a bad snow oil trucks could not get up
the hill.

Funny but maybe 5 years ago a friend wanted to give me his whole house
generator as he was getting a bigger one.

[Patrick]

Post by Frank

Post by Patrick
But what do the rest of the markings indicate?

Today the 4 pack of l lb. cylinders at Walmart was $18 and also my
second heater arrived.

That's the best price I've seen recently, where one gallon of propane
weighs 4.2 pounds so that's roughly $18 for about one gallon of propane.

When you refill them, the propane cost is around $4 per gallon, although
that doesn't count the cost of the 20-pound tank & the refilling setup.

With that extra $14 you save filling up four of the refillable tanks, you
can amortize the $80 it costs for the refilling jig at Home Depot.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-Three-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT-2CL/311513863

Admittedly, that would be six visits to Walmart though, to break even.

Post by Frank
We are just keeping these things on standby in case we have another long
power failure in cold weather.

Does your propane power generator run off of the small one-pound cans?
Mine only runs off of the hose which only fits the 20 pound tanks & up.

Post by Frank
I have a 6,000 or so watt gasoline generator that previously could
handle my oil furnace but we had to replace the furnace as described
elsewhere with a heat pump and I cannot handle it.

I have to turn off my well pumps as my 6KW generator can't handle them
either.

Post by Frank
We were considering a whole house generator but that could set us back
$20,000 and wife does not want a large propane tank in our back yard.

Understood. It has to be accessible to the propane delivery guy also, which
means they have to park a 3000 gallon truck & drag a hose to the tank.

Post by Frank
Whole house generator at full use can use up to 4 gallons of propane per
hour. We live on a hill and in a bad snow oil trucks could not get up
the hill.

Mine uses about one gallon of propane an hour but it depends on a lot.

Post by Frank
Funny but maybe 5 years ago a friend wanted to give me his whole house
generator as he was getting a bigger one.

That plus a transfer switch would be ideal.

[Frank]

Post by Patrick

Post by Frank

Post by Patrick
But what do the rest of the markings indicate?

Today the 4 pack of l lb. cylinders at Walmart was $18 and also my
second heater arrived.

That's the best price I've seen recently, where one gallon of propane
weighs 4.2 pounds so that's roughly $18 for about one gallon of propane.
When you refill them, the propane cost is around $4 per gallon, although
that doesn't count the cost of the 20-pound tank & the refilling setup.
With that extra $14 you save filling up four of the refillable tanks, you
can amortize the $80 it costs for the refilling jig at Home Depot.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-Three-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT-2CL/311513863
Admittedly, that would be six visits to Walmart though, to break even.

Post by Frank
We are just keeping these things on standby in case we have another
long power failure in cold weather.

Does your propane power generator run off of the small one-pound cans?
Mine only runs off of the hose which only fits the 20 pound tanks & up.

Post by Frank
I have a 6,000 or so watt gasoline generator that previously could
handle my oil furnace but we had to replace the furnace as described
elsewhere with a heat pump and I cannot handle it.

I have to turn off my well pumps as my 6KW generator can't handle them
either.

Post by Frank
We were considering a whole house generator but that could set us back
$20,000 and wife does not want a large propane tank in our back yard.

Understood. It has to be accessible to the propane delivery guy also, which
means they have to park a 3000 gallon truck & drag a hose to the tank.

Post by Frank
Whole house generator at full use can use up to 4 gallons of propane
per hour.  We live on a hill and in a bad snow oil trucks could not
get up the hill.

Mine uses about one gallon of propane an hour but it depends on a lot.

Post by Frank
Funny but maybe 5 years ago a friend wanted to give me his whole house
generator as he was getting a bigger one.

That plus a transfer switch would be ideal.

My generator uses gasoline. I have a transfer panel. It could handle our
oil furnace, well, refrigerator and freezers some lights in one room
with TV and internet modem. I bought it and had transfer panel installed
about 15 years ago when power was out over 2 days in cold weather. We
have fairly frequent power failures because of the tree lined road
leading to our development. Usually outages are less than a few hours
but storm that went through recently caused 500 outages in the county.

I have two 5 gallon propane tanks for my grill and would get refillable
tanks and connector if I thought I would be using the heaters a lot.

Just googled up friend's house and it is only about 12% bigger than mine
so his generator may not have been big enough. He and his wife were
living on the first floor that the generator covered and he needed a
bigger one to house his divorced daughter and her teenage son on the
second floor. He also has natural gas heat which we do not have. His
gas heater would only draw a fraction of the power needed for a heat
pump so the free generator would definitely not be big enough for me.

[Snag]

Post by Frank

Post by Patrick

Post by Frank

Post by Patrick
But what do the rest of the markings indicate?

Today the 4 pack of l lb. cylinders at Walmart was $18 and also my
second heater arrived.

That's the best price I've seen recently, where one gallon of propane
weighs 4.2 pounds so that's roughly $18 for about one gallon of propane.
When you refill them, the propane cost is around $4 per gallon, although
that doesn't count the cost of the 20-pound tank & the refilling setup.
With that extra $14 you save filling up four of the refillable tanks, you
can amortize the $80 it costs for the refilling jig at Home Depot.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-Three-1-lb-Refillable-Propane-Cylinders-with-Refill-Kit-YSN1LBKT-2CL/311513863
Admittedly, that would be six visits to Walmart though, to break even.

Post by Frank
We are just keeping these things on standby in case we have another
long power failure in cold weather.

Does your propane power generator run off of the small one-pound cans?
Mine only runs off of the hose which only fits the 20 pound tanks & up.

Post by Frank
I have a 6,000 or so watt gasoline generator that previously could
handle my oil furnace but we had to replace the furnace as described
elsewhere with a heat pump and I cannot handle it.

I have to turn off my well pumps as my 6KW generator can't handle them
either.

Post by Frank
We were considering a whole house generator but that could set us
back $20,000 and wife does not want a large propane tank in our back
yard.

Understood. It has to be accessible to the propane delivery guy also, which
means they have to park a 3000 gallon truck & drag a hose to the tank.

Post by Frank
Whole house generator at full use can use up to 4 gallons of propane
per hour.  We live on a hill and in a bad snow oil trucks could not
get up the hill.

Mine uses about one gallon of propane an hour but it depends on a lot.

Post by Frank
Funny but maybe 5 years ago a friend wanted to give me his whole
house generator as he was getting a bigger one.

That plus a transfer switch would be ideal.

My generator uses gasoline. I have a transfer panel. It could handle our
oil furnace, well, refrigerator and freezers some lights in one room
with TV and internet modem. I bought it and had transfer panel installed
about 15 years ago when power was out over 2 days in cold weather.  We
have fairly frequent power failures because of the tree lined road
leading to our development.  Usually outages are less than a few hours
but storm that went through recently caused 500 outages in the county.
I have two 5 gallon propane tanks for my grill and would get refillable
tanks and connector if I thought I would be using the heaters a lot.
Just googled up friend's house and it is only about 12% bigger than mine
so his generator may not have been big enough.  He and his wife were
living on the first floor that the generator covered and he needed a
bigger one to house his divorced daughter and her teenage son on the
second floor.  He also has natural gas heat which we do not have. His
gas heater would only draw a fraction of the power needed for a heat
pump so the free generator would definitely not be big enough for me.

The only things we have to turn off when on generator are the big
water heater and the A/C units . We still have a limited supply of hot
water at the kitchen sink . Heating with wood is a bonus , we'll never
freeze here - our backup is a propane wall heater hooked to a 250 gallon
tank . One of these days I'm going to get a propane conversion for the
generator , hook it to the big tank too .

[Patrick]

Post by Frank
I have two 5 gallon propane tanks for my grill and would get refillable
tanks and connector if I thought I would be using the heaters a lot.

On the small tanks you save $14 per gallon or more (probably more because
$18 for a gallon of propane at Walmart was the BEST price anyone can find).

But on the five-gallon tanks, you only save $1 per gallon due to the minor
difference in cost between delivered bulk propane & U-Haul local refills.

That's really the main equation. How much do you use the 1-pound canisters.
And how much do you use the 20 pound (5 gallon) tanks. That's what matters.

One gallon of propane weighs 4.2 pounds so the $18 Walmart four-pack is
roughly about $18 per gallon so it's easier to justify saving that cost.

It only takes as few as one set of those $18 Walmart 4-packs of the 1-pound
canisters to break even but it takes about 50 5-gallon tanks to break even.

To give concrete examples, you can buy for $18 the Walmart 4-pack you
mentioned & then buy an $18 Harbor Freight Propane Bottle Refill Valve.
https://www.harborfreight.com/propane-bottle-refill-valve-63607.html

After that $36, you can refill those disposable one-pound tanks from your
20-pound tank as many times as you want (or until the cows come home).

If you already have the four empty disposable one-pound propane tanks, then
the Harbor Freight refill valve (SKU: 63607) already paid for itself then.

While it's a no brainer to refill the one pound propane tanks (if you have
a 20 pound tank, that is), it's not the same with the Nash Fuel Hose.
https://store.nashfuel.com/products/453-pol

Unless I can find a less expensive source, the $250 for a hose will take 50
five-gallon refills due to the dollar-a-gallon difference in bulk propane.