Discussion:
Follow-up on leak in basement
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micky
2024-05-23 17:43:39 UTC
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I finished (almost) putting in the new pressure regulator, which the
instructions say is preset to 50 psi. I bought a new pressure gauge,
also from Watts, and it says the pressure is 40psi.

So I called Watts Technical (they have 7 or so divisions, none of which
is called Watts, but I choose option 8, Other. to ask them which one was
likely wrong. He surprised me by saying the gauge was likely right.
That the spring in the regulator is maybe he said carbon steel and you
couldn't depend on it. He told me to turn clockwise to increase the
pressure, which I knew, but that it was 5-6 pounds per turn. That's good
to know. He said he uses 65, almost 70 pounds of pressure, and he
mentioned the shower and the kitchen sink sprayer as places where it
makes a difference. I only have 40 and I have taken only baths since
the water is back on. I should take a shower and see if I don't like
it. He said lower pressure is good for water conservation and
mentioned California where it's a big issue, but he's in Boston where
they have too much water this year.

I would probably be happy with 40 pounds. Just takes longer for the tub
or toilet to fill, but it hasn't seemed too long. I've been refilling 2
liter soda bottles and that seems to go pretty fast. Might be harder to
water the lawn but I don't do that anyhow.

I do use the dishwasher. That depends on water pressure doesn't it?

And I tend to watch the clothes washer fill up, to decide whether to add
more soap or clothes, etc. That already takes too long.

And if I don't raise it to 50, it's one more thing I should leave in a
note for the new owner some day, because it will never occur to him that
the pressure is adjusted wrong.


Then I asked about whether I caused my own problem, and yes, I did. IIUC
he said 3 days at 32 is enough to freeze the basement, and the weather
here was well below that for 9 days. Use heat tape next time. Same
things Bob told me.

He said it puts stress on the metal and it could fail 3 months later, as
happened to me. Also what Bob said. (I still need to learn more
details about the leak my neighbor had. I don't think they even go away
in the winter, much less turn off the heat.)

He was not in a hurry at all, gave me his name and extension number if I
have more questions. Told a story about putting in pipes in Maine
where it the ground was so hard at 3 or 4 feet it was hard to go deeper.
Seemed like a guy old enough that he'd rather stay inside and answer
questions instead of doing plumbing, especially in the winter.


I should also cut away the rubber lip around the sump, in case something
like this happens again. Everyone should do that. Isn't that just
there so that when they poured the cement floor of the basement, it
didn't overflow into the sump?


When I put the pipes together, I had a very small leak and a teeny leak,
both where the pipes screwed into the regulator. I'd used teflon tape
before but maybe only on the TP valve in the water heater. That's not
tapered and this is, and it warned me not to tighten too much or I'd
crush the threads. So I didnt' tighten enough.

I thought I'd messed up bad, in that it would be much harder to tighten
some more when there was water in there, compared to air, which is
easier to squeeze out. Any truth to that? And would have to take it
apart again. But I did just tighten some more and stop the very small
leak and it's hard to tell about the teeny leak, becuse the humidity in
the basement seemed to increase suddenly and thre are hundreds of little
water drops on the whole length of the pipe, so I can't tell if there is
a leak or not.

"Very small" was originally 10 drops a day. Teeny was 1 drop a day. I
thought they might get smaller on their own, like the faucets tht turn
themselves off, but they didn't.
unknown
2024-05-23 18:33:00 UTC
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Permalink
Post by micky
I finished (almost) putting in the new pressure regulator, which the
instructions say is preset to 50 psi. I bought a new pressure gauge,
also from Watts, and it says the pressure is 40psi.
Maybe the water pressure in your house is 40 psi. A 50 psi regulator can
down-regulate 70 psi water source to 50 psi, but cannot up-regulate 40
psi water source to 50 psi.

You are expecting miracles from your new "Made-in-China" pressure regulator.
Post by micky
So I called Watts Technical (they have 7 or so divisions, none of which
is called Watts, but I choose option 8, Other. to ask them which one was
likely wrong. He surprised me by saying the gauge was likely right.
That the spring in the regulator is maybe he said carbon steel and you
couldn't depend on it. He told me to turn clockwise to increase the
pressure, which I knew, but that it was 5-6 pounds per turn. That's good
to know. He said he uses 65, almost 70 pounds of pressure, and he
mentioned the shower and the kitchen sink sprayer as places where it
makes a difference. I only have 40 and I have taken only baths since
the water is back on. I should take a shower and see if I don't like
it. He said lower pressure is good for water conservation and
mentioned California where it's a big issue, but he's in Boston where
they have too much water this year.
I would probably be happy with 40 pounds. Just takes longer for the tub
or toilet to fill, but it hasn't seemed too long. I've been refilling 2
liter soda bottles and that seems to go pretty fast. Might be harder to
water the lawn but I don't do that anyhow.
I do use the dishwasher. That depends on water pressure doesn't it?
And I tend to watch the clothes washer fill up, to decide whether to add
more soap or clothes, etc. That already takes too long.
And if I don't raise it to 50, it's one more thing I should leave in a
note for the new owner some day, because it will never occur to him that
the pressure is adjusted wrong.
Then I asked about whether I caused my own problem, and yes, I did. IIUC
he said 3 days at 32 is enough to freeze the basement, and the weather
here was well below that for 9 days. Use heat tape next time. Same
things Bob told me.
He said it puts stress on the metal and it could fail 3 months later, as
happened to me. Also what Bob said. (I still need to learn more
details about the leak my neighbor had. I don't think they even go away
in the winter, much less turn off the heat.)
He was not in a hurry at all, gave me his name and extension number if I
have more questions. Told a story about putting in pipes in Maine
where it the ground was so hard at 3 or 4 feet it was hard to go deeper.
Seemed like a guy old enough that he'd rather stay inside and answer
questions instead of doing plumbing, especially in the winter.
I should also cut away the rubber lip around the sump, in case something
like this happens again. Everyone should do that. Isn't that just
there so that when they poured the cement floor of the basement, it
didn't overflow into the sump?
When I put the pipes together, I had a very small leak and a teeny leak,
both where the pipes screwed into the regulator. I'd used teflon tape
before but maybe only on the TP valve in the water heater. That's not
tapered and this is, and it warned me not to tighten too much or I'd
crush the threads. So I didnt' tighten enough.
I thought I'd messed up bad, in that it would be much harder to tighten
some more when there was water in there, compared to air, which is
easier to squeeze out. Any truth to that? And would have to take it
apart again. But I did just tighten some more and stop the very small
leak and it's hard to tell about the teeny leak, becuse the humidity in
the basement seemed to increase suddenly and thre are hundreds of little
water drops on the whole length of the pipe, so I can't tell if there is
a leak or not.
"Very small" was originally 10 drops a day. Teeny was 1 drop a day. I
thought they might get smaller on their own, like the faucets tht turn
themselves off, but they didn't.
micky
2024-05-24 21:15:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 23 May 2024 14:33:00 -0400, ? Mighty Wannabe
Post by unknown
Post by micky
I finished (almost) putting in the new pressure regulator, which the
instructions say is preset to 50 psi. I bought a new pressure gauge,
also from Watts, and it says the pressure is 40psi.
Maybe the water pressure in your house is 40 psi. A 50 psi regulator can
down-regulate 70 psi water source to 50 psi, but cannot up-regulate 40
psi water source to 50 psi.
You're right. So I went next door and measured his. And it's 115
pounds!

I had originally wondered what the water company pressure was, but I
figured I wouldn't be able to find out because everyone in this n'hood
has a regulator and I don't know anyone who lives in one of the older
houses nearby. But I think it might be 115. Or higher.

Talked to my neighbor and he's going to buy another pressure gauge, just
in case mine is wrong. (He says currently it doesn't seem higher than
the pressure in the house he grew up in, which has well water and surely
doesn't have very high pressure.) The man at Watts said it was more
likely my pressure regulator wasn't really pre-set at 50 than that the
gauge was wrong.
Post by unknown
You are expecting miracles from your new "Made-in-China" pressure regulator.
A) You, not me, came up with the theory that the city water pressure is
only 40 pounds, so don't tell me what I'm expecting.

B) You don't know that the pressure regulator was made in China.**

C) We may not like it but China builds quality stuff for people who are
willing to pay quality prices. (And it makes crappy stuff for those
who want to pay the lowest conceivable price.)
**
Post by unknown
Post by micky
So I called Watts Technical (they have 7 or so divisions, none of which
is called Watts, but I choose option 8, Other. to ask them which one was
likely wrong. He surprised me by saying the gauge was likely right.
That the spring in the regulator is maybe he said carbon steel and you
couldn't depend on it. He told me to turn clockwise to increase the
pressure, which I knew, but that it was 5-6 pounds per turn. That's good
to know. He said he uses 65, almost 70 pounds of pressure, and he
mentioned the shower and the kitchen sink sprayer as places where it
makes a difference. I only have 40 and I have taken only baths since
the water is back on. I should take a shower and see if I don't like
it. He said lower pressure is good for water conservation and
mentioned California where it's a big issue, but he's in Boston where
they have too much water this year.
I would probably be happy with 40 pounds. Just takes longer for the tub
or toilet to fill, but it hasn't seemed too long. I've been refilling 2
liter soda bottles and that seems to go pretty fast. Might be harder to
water the lawn but I don't do that anyhow.
I do use the dishwasher. That depends on water pressure doesn't it?
And I tend to watch the clothes washer fill up, to decide whether to add
more soap or clothes, etc. That already takes too long.
And if I don't raise it to 50, it's one more thing I should leave in a
note for the new owner some day, because it will never occur to him that
the pressure is adjusted wrong.
Then I asked about whether I caused my own problem, and yes, I did. IIUC
he said 3 days at 32 is enough to freeze the basement, and the weather
here was well below that for 9 days. Use heat tape next time. Same
things Bob told me.
He said it puts stress on the metal and it could fail 3 months later, as
happened to me. Also what Bob said. (I still need to learn more
details about the leak my neighbor had. I don't think they even go away
in the winter, much less turn off the heat.)
He was not in a hurry at all, gave me his name and extension number if I
have more questions. Told a story about putting in pipes in Maine
where it the ground was so hard at 3 or 4 feet it was hard to go deeper.
Seemed like a guy old enough that he'd rather stay inside and answer
questions instead of doing plumbing, especially in the winter.
I should also cut away the rubber lip around the sump, in case something
like this happens again. Everyone should do that. Isn't that just
there so that when they poured the cement floor of the basement, it
didn't overflow into the sump?
When I put the pipes together, I had a very small leak and a teeny leak,
both where the pipes screwed into the regulator. I'd used teflon tape
before but maybe only on the TP valve in the water heater. That's not
tapered and this is, and it warned me not to tighten too much or I'd
crush the threads. So I didnt' tighten enough.
I thought I'd messed up bad, in that it would be much harder to tighten
some more when there was water in there, compared to air, which is
easier to squeeze out. Any truth to that? And would have to take it
apart again. But I did just tighten some more and stop the very small
leak and it's hard to tell about the teeny leak, becuse the humidity in
the basement seemed to increase suddenly and thre are hundreds of little
water drops on the whole length of the pipe, so I can't tell if there is
a leak or not.
"Very small" was originally 10 drops a day. Teeny was 1 drop a day. I
thought they might get smaller on their own, like the faucets tht turn
themselves off, but they didn't.
micky
2024-05-24 21:26:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 24 May 2024 17:15:42 -0400, micky
Post by micky
B) You don't know that the pressure regulator was made in China.**
C) We may not like it but China builds quality stuff for people who are
willing to pay quality prices. (And it makes crappy stuff for those
who want to pay the lowest conceivable price.)
** https://www.watts.com/our-story/history (Other intersting items
omitted)

1880s
Received first of 18 patents
Joseph Watts was a prodigious patent holder, innovating steam and water
pressure regulators designed to stop catastrophic boiler failure and
protect textile mill workers. While designed primarily for the textile
industry, Joseph Watts’ first pressure relief valve patent was hugely
successful, finding widespread application and implementation.

1959
Relocated Manufacturing Facility from Lawrence, MA to Franklin, NH
By the late 1950s, the Watts manufacturing facility had grown
overcrowded and desperately needed an expansion. A new 73,000 square
foot manufacturing plant was built in Franklin, NH. Today, the Franklin
plant dwarfs its original facility, with 16 expansions and nearly triple
the original square footage.

1960s
Opened First International Manufacturing Facilities
The sixties marked an era of bold, international expansion for Watts. In
1961, the company opened its first manufacturing plant in Canada. The
very next year, in 1962, Watts took a transatlantic leap, constructing a
plant in Stroud, Gloucestershire, England, to sell in the U.K. and
Europe.

1994
Opened First Manufacturing Facility in China
Watts launched its first joint venture in 1994 with the Tianjin Tanggu
Valve Plant of the People’s Republic of China, buying 60% controlling
interest. An established ISO 9001 certified manufacturer, Tanggu sold
its butterfly, globe, and check valves to 29 provinces and autonomous
regions in China and exports to the U.S., Europe, Australia, and
Southeast Asia.

2013
Opened a New “Lead Free” Foundry in Franklin, NH
In response to the Reduction of Lead in Drinking Water Act, Watts made
the decision to open a dedicated 30,000 square foot lead free foundry at
its Frankin, NH campus, positioning the company as a trusted source for
lead free products. As a lead free pioneer, Watts also took a leadership
role in educating the industry about lead free as a founding member of
the “Get the Lead Out” Consortium.

So they've been in the water pressure regulatore business since the
1880's.
micky
2024-05-24 21:59:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I missed this from March of 2012

Watts Water Technologies Relocates Manufacturing Plant From China to
Franklin, New Hampshire

Watts Water Technologies and its Webster Valve subsidiary will make a
multi-million dollar investment in a 30,000-square-foot plant complex
that will bring an estimated 100 manufacturing jobs from China to
Franklin, New Hampshire.

`It makes me proud, as a New Hampshire resident and an American, that
you have been able to bring your product lines back from China and bring
jobs back from China. It's a wonderful accomplishment,' Franklin Mayor
Kenneth Merrifield told Watts officials.....

https://www.areadevelopment.com/newsitems/3-28-2012/watts-webster-valve-new-hampshire-backshoring-2624290287.shtml


In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 24 May 2024 17:26:15 -0400, micky
Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 24 May 2024 17:15:42 -0400, micky
Post by micky
B) You don't know that the pressure regulator was made in China.**
C) We may not like it but China builds quality stuff for people who are
willing to pay quality prices. (And it makes crappy stuff for those
who want to pay the lowest conceivable price.)
** https://www.watts.com/our-story/history (Other intersting items
omitted)
1880s
Received first of 18 patents
Joseph Watts was a prodigious patent holder, innovating steam and water
pressure regulators designed to stop catastrophic boiler failure and
protect textile mill workers. While designed primarily for the textile
industry, Joseph Watts’ first pressure relief valve patent was hugely
successful, finding widespread application and implementation.
1959
Relocated Manufacturing Facility from Lawrence, MA to Franklin, NH
By the late 1950s, the Watts manufacturing facility had grown
overcrowded and desperately needed an expansion. A new 73,000 square
foot manufacturing plant was built in Franklin, NH. Today, the Franklin
plant dwarfs its original facility, with 16 expansions and nearly triple
the original square footage.
1960s
Opened First International Manufacturing Facilities
The sixties marked an era of bold, international expansion for Watts. In
1961, the company opened its first manufacturing plant in Canada. The
very next year, in 1962, Watts took a transatlantic leap, constructing a
plant in Stroud, Gloucestershire, England, to sell in the U.K. and
Europe.
1994
Opened First Manufacturing Facility in China
Watts launched its first joint venture in 1994 with the Tianjin Tanggu
Valve Plant of the People’s Republic of China, buying 60% controlling
interest. An established ISO 9001 certified manufacturer, Tanggu sold
its butterfly, globe, and check valves to 29 provinces and autonomous
regions in China and exports to the U.S., Europe, Australia, and
Southeast Asia.
2013
Opened a New “Lead Free” Foundry in Franklin, NH
In response to the Reduction of Lead in Drinking Water Act, Watts made
the decision to open a dedicated 30,000 square foot lead free foundry at
its Frankin, NH campus, positioning the company as a trusted source for
lead free products. As a lead free pioneer, Watts also took a leadership
role in educating the industry about lead free as a founding member of
the “Get the Lead Out” Consortium.
So they've been in the water pressure regulatore business since the
1880's.
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