Diswasher noise level - 53 db versus 50 db - any real difference??

[TNSTAAFL]

We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.

Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.

Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?

Thanks!

[Wayne Boatwright]

On Mon 29 Mar 2010 08:14:23p, TNSTAAFL told us...

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50
db, and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and
functionality are pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price
difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range -
they are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that
low, maybe the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify
the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

I'd guess not, at least not $100 worth.

[Joe]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

Yes. Depends on how sensitive your ears are. Sound measurements are
not a linear function. Read up on the topic in any standard physics
textbook. If you were a music major, buy the pricier machine.
Otherwise, you may be annoyed or not, so why not get the most cost
effective machine and just close the kitchen door when it's running?

Joe

[Cindy Hamilton]

Post by Joe

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

Yes. Depends on how sensitive your ears are. Sound measurements are
not a linear function. Read up on the topic in any standard physics
textbook. If you were a music major, buy the pricier machine.
Otherwise, you may be annoyed or not, so why not get the most cost
effective machine and just close the kitchen door when it's running?

Not everyone has a kitchen door. I can almost turn around and see
the dishwasher from where I sit on the sofa in the living room.
The builder of my little 1948 ranch gave me a pretty open plan for the
time period. My next dishwasher will be the quietest one I can find.

Cindy Hamilton

[g***@neo.rr.com]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 06:49:18 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by Joe

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

Yes. Depends on how sensitive your ears are. Sound measurements are
not a linear function. Read up on the topic in any standard physics
textbook. If you were a music major, buy the pricier machine.
Otherwise, you may be annoyed or not, so why not get the most cost
effective machine and just close the kitchen door when it's running?

Not everyone has a kitchen door. I can almost turn around and see
the dishwasher from where I sit on the sofa in the living room.
The builder of my little 1948 ranch gave me a pretty open plan for the
time period. My next dishwasher will be the quietest one I can find.
Cindy Hamilton

We had a Bosch installed about 5 years ago. They said it was going to
be quiet, but I had no idea just how quiet. We can eat dinner a few
feet away from it and not know it's running until it empties water
into the drain under the sink. We were eating dinner one night and I
heard a gurgling sound in the sink and asked my wife, "What's that?"
She replied that she was running the diskwasher. Noises normally
drive me crazy, so this thing is amazing. I don't know what the noise
spec was. It's model number is SHX46A05UC/14 if anyone can look it
up.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by g***@neo.rr.com
We had a Bosch installed about 5 years ago. They said it was going to
be quiet, but I had no idea just how quiet. We can eat dinner a few
feet away from it and not know it's running until it empties water
into the drain under the sink. We were eating dinner one night and I
heard a gurgling sound in the sink and asked my wife, "What's that?"
She replied that she was running the diskwasher. Noises normally
drive me crazy, so this thing is amazing. I don't know what the noise
spec was. It's model number is SHX46A05UC/14 if anyone can look it
up.

That is pretty much the same experience I have had with out Bosch
Ascentia.

[AZ Nomad]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?

a 100W stereo is 3 db louder than a 50W stereo

However, 10db is perceived as twice as loud.

Do you have a stereo with a volume control marked out in db?
Play some thing at medium-low volume. Move down three db.
3db isn't worth $100 in my opinion, but if you have such a stereo then
you can make your own decision.

[t***@mucks.net]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:14:23 -0500, "TNSTAAFL"

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

You'd never notice a 3db difference.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by TNSTAAFL
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?

I'd rather use that $100 for a bunch of teaks to make dirty dishes. You
won't hear much of a difference at all.

In addition, think about how the machine will be used. Most are in the
kitchen where you start the DW after dinner and then go to a different part
of the house while it runs. Unless you are putting yours in the bedroom and
run it at night, who cares about the slight noise difference?

[s***@dog.com]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 05:48:21 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

Post by Ed Pawlowski

Post by TNSTAAFL
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?

I'd rather use that $100 for a bunch of teaks to make dirty dishes. You
won't hear much of a difference at all.
In addition, think about how the machine will be used. Most are in the
kitchen where you start the DW after dinner and then go to a different part
of the house while it runs. Unless you are putting yours in the bedroom and
run it at night, who cares about the slight noise difference?

a 10db increase would sound about twice as loud.

[Jim Elbrecht]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?

I think there is more than decibels to an annoying sound. The one
with lower decibels might have a different pitch or pattern making it
more annoying than the 'noisier' one.

That said- I doubt Bosch makes a really annoying one as that is one of
the key features folks will comment on to their friends.

I'd buy on features that I can see.

Jim

[ransley]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

In a kitchen 3 db makes a bit of difference, look up a db rating sheet
of comparisons to get an idea of sound levels, if noise is any issue
get the better one, it may still be loud for you.

[keith]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?

Yes, there is a perceptible difference. 1dB is about the limit of
perceptibility. 3dB is twice the energy, but the ears are logarithmic
so it won't sound twice as loud.

Our kitchen is pretty well open to the living room so sound level is
important. We went with the Electrolux at 45dBA and haven't been
sorry.

[terry]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptible noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

====================================================================

dbs. Decibels are technically a 'Logarithmic ratio' of two things,
power, sound, noise etc. See example below.

So what does that mean? Well it means that every +3 decibels is twice
the amount.

But it is also based on the characteristics of the human ear; which is
just able to detect any doubling (or halving) of a sound level.

In other words if you turn up the TV volume a perceptible amount your
are probably increasing it by several levels, each of 3db. maybe say,
12 or 15 db. A slight increase of say 3db most likely barely, or not,
noticeable!

The other thing is that there are different references of decibels
(All based on Bels, so named after Alexander Graham who invented the
telephone).

The dbs mentioned by the OP are probaly referenced to dbA. Which
someone more knowledgeable will probably describe as a sound reference
level ............... seem to recall that a car with a sound level in
the 70dbA range (with windows closed, driving traffic etc.) is
considered fairly normal? If my recollection and that ratio is correct
that's about seven times louder than a 50 db, dishwasher. Much simpler
would be to ask someone who has similar model!

A dish washer, if one does have to run it at the same time as sitting/
listening/watching TV nearby with a sound level in the 50db range
sounds OK? What the heck that one is +3db louder. Wouldn't spend
extra!

We run ours, a used one that somebody gave us and we fixed for a few
dollars ourselves some years ago, although it's noise does not seem to
interfere with the TV some 25 feet away in a 'family' room open to the
kitchen; or after we go to bed, if noise is a factor.

Why decibels????? Well the reason is that decibels can be added
together whereas ratios such as half or a quarter of something can be
tricky to calculate.

Example: The difference between a 200 watt sound amplifier bulb and a
100 watt amplifier is 2 to 1 (Or double the power if you like). So one
might think that one is 'Twice as loud as the other'!
Well ..............

Logarithmically that's 200/100 = 2 and the logarithm of 2 = 0.3 Bels.
That's = to 3 decibels (three tenths of a Bel). And three decibels is
the just detectable level of change that human ear can notice.

To get a really noticable change in sound level an 800 watt amplifier,
that's a +3, +3, +3 = +9 db. or 100 to 800 watts.

Anyway; with apologies for all the technical stuff, you won't hardly
notice the difference between 53 dbs and 50 dbs.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by terry
Anyway; with apologies for all the technical stuff, you won't hardly
notice the difference between 53 dbs and 50 dbs.

The tech stuff is interesting. One thing not mentioned though, is the
pitch. The loudness is only of factor in determining if a noise is going to
annoy you. High pitched squealing type noises can drive you nuts no matter
how quite as apposed to a low toned louder rumble.

[Phisherman]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:14:23 -0500, "TNSTAAFL"

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

Yes, there is a detectable difference. "Quiet" has a price, you're
unlikely to find a quiet dishwasher under $800. You can fix
fibererglass insulation or batting around the unit to help even more.
I can barely hear mine until the drain start to gurgle.

[nick]

replying to TNSTAAFL, nick wrote:
My dad always said 'Buy the best and you will always be happy with it'.
This is an item you are going to be using for 10 years plus. Spend the extra
and get something you will love.
Skip going to four movies over the next year to pay the difference. You won't
miss the movie, but you sure will enjoy the quieter dishwasher for the nine
years afterwards.


--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/diswasher-noise-level-53-db-versus-50-db-any-real-differ-433253-.htm

[Thane]

Post by nick
My dad always said 'Buy the best and you will always be happy with it'.
This is an item you are going to be using for 10 years plus. Spend the
extra and get something you will love.
Skip going to four movies over the next year to pay the difference. You
won't miss the movie, but you sure will enjoy the quieter dishwasher for
the nine years afterwards.

3dB difference is equivalent to one half of the sound level. You'll hear
it, but it'll not be dramatically lower. It also depends on where its
located (near people having quiet conversations, TV etc). I opted for
50dB and haven't regretted it.

Thane

[gregz]

Post by Thane

Post by nick
My dad always said 'Buy the best and you will always be happy with it'.
This is an item you are going to be using for 10 years plus. Spend the
extra and get something you will love.
Skip going to four movies over the next year to pay the difference. You
won't miss the movie, but you sure will enjoy the quieter dishwasher for
the nine years afterwards.

3dB difference is equivalent to one half of the sound level. You'll hear
it, but it'll not be dramatically lower. It also depends on where its
located (near people having quiet conversations, TV etc). I opted for
50dB and haven't regretted it.
Thane

No, 3 dB is 3 dB less. 1/2 sound level us -6 DB. Actual ear 1/2 volume is
-10 dB. Trouble with reading is unknown frequency band. Frequencies between
2-3kHz are more audible. So it's harder to compare different readings,
since the meter is not your hearing response.

Greg

[DerbyDad03]

Post by nick
My dad always said 'Buy the best and you will always be happy with it'.
This is an item you are going to be using for 10 years plus. Spend the extra
and get something you will love.
Skip going to four movies over the next year to pay the difference. You won't
miss the movie, but you sure will enjoy the quieter dishwasher for the nine
years afterwards.

Well, it's been over 6 years since the date of the original question. I
wonder how many movies the OP has missed. 4 years to go on the DW.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.

I can't speak to db except to note that the db scale is logarithmic -
i.e. 50 vs 51 is a lot bigger than it sounds.

Our old dishwasher, which lasted a looooong time, made enough noise to
wake the dead. You couldn't watch TV in the kitchen without earphones
when it was running.

OTOH, the Bosch Ascetia that replaces it is so quiet that, at first, I
used to get creeped out: if I listened close enough there was *some*
kind of water-like noise coming from *somewhere*.... and it turned out
that the wife had turned on the dishwasher when I was not looking.

This thing is *quiet*.... and I'm kind of neurotic about noise.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@y.Invalid
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.

I can't speak to db except to note that the db scale is logarithmic -
i.e. 50 vs 51 is a lot bigger than it sounds.

One Db is not vety much in sound level. To the ear it should be just
the minimum change that you can detect with average hearing. To get a
an idea about db, for 3 db of change double the distance. Say listen to
something at 2 feet away and then back up 2 more feet. At 8 feet it
would be 6 db of difference and to get to 10 db you have to back up to
20 feet.

[FromTheRafters]

Post by Ralph Mowery
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.

I can't speak to db except to note that the db scale is logarithmic -
i.e. 50 vs 51 is a lot bigger than it sounds.

One Db is not vety much in sound level. To the ear it should be just
the minimum change that you can detect with average hearing. To get a
an idea about db, for 3 db of change double the distance. Say listen to
something at 2 feet away and then back up 2 more feet. At 8 feet it
would be 6 db of difference and to get to 10 db you have to back up to
20 feet.

Double the distance and the sound level should fall 6db as it falls off
by the 'square' of the distance.

[gregz]

Post by Ralph Mowery
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.

I can't speak to db except to note that the db scale is logarithmic -
i.e. 50 vs 51 is a lot bigger than it sounds.

One Db is not vety much in sound level. To the ear it should be just
the minimum change that you can detect with average hearing. To get a
an idea about db, for 3 db of change double the distance. Say listen to
something at 2 feet away and then back up 2 more feet. At 8 feet it
would be 6 db of difference and to get to 10 db you have to back up to
20 feet.

Doubling original distance should be 6 dB change. 3 dB is a change of power
by 1/2 or double. SPL is a level specified by power. To double intensity,
like a voltage level, it takes 6 dB or four times the power. Similar to car
acceleration. It takes four times the HP to double acceleration.

Greg

[Ralph Mowery]

Post by gregz

Post by Ralph Mowery
One Db is not vety much in sound level. To the ear it should be just
the minimum change that you can detect with average hearing. To get a
an idea about db, for 3 db of change double the distance. Say listen to
something at 2 feet away and then back up 2 more feet. At 8 feet it
would be 6 db of difference and to get to 10 db you have to back up to
20 feet.

Doubling original distance should be 6 dB change. 3 dB is a change of power
by 1/2 or double. SPL is a level specified by power. To double intensity,
like a voltage level, it takes 6 dB or four times the power. Similar to car
acceleration. It takes four times the HP to double acceleration.
Greg

Yes, I was off by half or double. Anyway for sound that the ear hears,
going only a few DB will not sound much different.

[m***@yahoo.com]

Post by gregz

Post by Ralph Mowery
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.

I can't speak to db except to note that the db scale is logarithmic -
i.e. 50 vs 51 is a lot bigger than it sounds.

One Db is not vety much in sound level. To the ear it should be just
the minimum change that you can detect with average hearing. To get a
an idea about db, for 3 db of change double the distance. Say listen to
something at 2 feet away and then back up 2 more feet. At 8 feet it
would be 6 db of difference and to get to 10 db you have to back up to
20 feet.

Doubling original distance should be 6 dB change. 3 dB is a change of power
by 1/2 or double. SPL is a level specified by power. To double intensity,
like a voltage level, it takes 6 dB or four times the power. Similar to car
acceleration. It takes four times the HP to double acceleration.
Greg

+1

I'm glad to see that the political rants in this newsgroup didn't drive everyone away.

still some good posts

m

[bob haller]

Post by TNSTAAFL
We're looking at two Bosch dishwashers - one claims a noise level of 50 db,
and the other a noise level of 53 db - the features and functionality are
pretty much the same - there's about a $100 price difference.
Bosch has other, more expensive dishwashers in the mid-40 db range - they
are beyond my price point, but with a noise level that goes that low, maybe
the difference from 53 db to 50 db will be enough to justify the extra $100.
Is there an perceptable noise difference that I'll notice when the 50 db
machine is running versus the 53db machine?
Thanks!

i had a bosch dishwasher for perhaps 2 years, it was so quiet i had to feel the machine to see if it was running...

however it was a unreliable piece of junk.

you trade off quiet for cost and huge expense getting it serviced. replacing anything but the fill valve requires disassembling everything.....

after 2 out of warranty failures i took it to the scrap yard. that was its rightful home

[m***@yahoo.com]

how would you express the age of the OP in dB?

[Ed Pawlowski]

Post by bob haller
i had a bosch dishwasher for perhaps 2 years, it was so quiet i had to feel the machine to see if it was running...
however it was a unreliable piece of junk.
you trade off quiet for cost and huge expense getting it serviced. replacing anything but the fill valve requires disassembling everything.....
after 2 out of warranty failures i took it to the scrap yard. that was its rightful home

I was considering Bosch but my local appliance dealer no longer carries
them. He said it was a good machine for washing, very quiet, but meeded
a lot of service calls.

Bought another KitchenAid and continue to be happy with it. We also use
Cascade Platinum and everything is perfect when it comes out.