Discussion:
stapling romex
(too old to reply)
a***@altavista.net
2013-11-30 02:53:37 UTC
Permalink
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist.

Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
c***@snyder.on.ca
2013-11-30 03:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist.
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-01 13:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist.
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-01 14:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist.
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
DerbyDad03
2013-12-01 22:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist.
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...

Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-02 16:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist.
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...
Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
I would interpret it to mean any stairs, but I don' believe it
says specifically. The point is with any stairs, then the attic is
readily accessible to most people for storage, etc.
DerbyDad03
2013-12-03 17:13:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...
Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
I would interpret it to mean any stairs, but I don' believe it
says specifically. The point is with any stairs, then the attic is
readily accessible to most people for storage, etc.
I have pull down stairs to my crawl space attic, which is used for storage.
The roof structure is set up similar to this image, with a ridge board that
is wider than the rafter ends.

Loading Image...

I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.

Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.

Thoughts?
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-03 17:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...
Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
I would interpret it to mean any stairs, but I don' believe it
says specifically. The point is with any stairs, then the attic is
readily accessible to most people for storage, etc.
I have pull down stairs to my crawl space attic, which is used for storage.
The roof structure is set up similar to this image, with a ridge board that
is wider than the rafter ends.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Drz5ZCpSROo/TK9gbBj5WDI/AAAAAAAAAPY/dLXzBGm1UAo/s1600/Ridge+Beam.jpg
I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.
Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.
Thoughts?
If it's within 7 ft of the floor, my understanding of what the code
says it that it needs to be protected by a guard strip along side it that extends up above the romex. Said guard strip makes sense if it was
run along the top of a JOIST on the attic floor, where you could step on it,
slam into it with stuff that's stored there, etc. But AFAIK, the
code doesn't make a distinction. On the other hand, from a safety
standpoint, if I was the inspector I would not have a problem with
the way you did it. I see a lot worse stuff here that gets passed.
g***@aol.com
2013-12-03 18:06:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 17:13:44 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...
Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
I would interpret it to mean any stairs, but I don' believe it
says specifically. The point is with any stairs, then the attic is
readily accessible to most people for storage, etc.
I have pull down stairs to my crawl space attic, which is used for storage.
The roof structure is set up similar to this image, with a ridge board that
is wider than the rafter ends.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Drz5ZCpSROo/TK9gbBj5WDI/AAAAAAAAAPY/dLXzBGm1UAo/s1600/Ridge+Beam.jpg
I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.
Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.
Thoughts?
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.

320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to be
subject to physical damage.
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-04 09:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 17:13:44 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...
Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
I would interpret it to mean any stairs, but I don' believe it
says specifically. The point is with any stairs, then the attic is
readily accessible to most people for storage, etc.
I have pull down stairs to my crawl space attic, which is used for storage.
The roof structure is set up similar to this image, with a ridge board that
is wider than the rafter ends.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Drz5ZCpSROo/TK9gbBj5WDI/AAAAAAAAAPY/dLXzBGm1UAo/s1600/Ridge+Beam.jpg
I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.
Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.
Thoughts?
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to be
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
DerbyDad03
2013-12-04 13:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 17:13:44 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.
Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.
Thoughts?
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to be
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
Perhaps you are not picturing what I have correctly.

The Romex is stapled to the ridge board. It doesn't run across the rafters.
The rafters are a good inch above the Romex. In other words, it closely
follows a running board - the ridge board - as required/allowed by 320.15.
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-04 13:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 17:13:44 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.
Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.
Thoughts?
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to be
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
Perhaps you are not picturing what I have correctly.
The Romex is stapled to the ridge board. It doesn't run across the rafters.
The rafters are a good inch above the Romex. In other words, it closely
follows a running board - the ridge board - as required/allowed by 320.15.
320.15 doesn't specifically address attics. 320.23 does and it says that
any cable run across the face of joists, rafter or studs in an attic
has to be "protected by a guard strip" at least as high as the cable, unless
it's over 7 ft above the floor of the attic. It doesn't draw a distinction
between parallel or perpendicular. If I understand it correctly,
you have it stapled to the bottom of the ridgeboard. While the code
doesn't specifically say ridge board, it sounds like it would fall into
the same category. They want the cable either on the side of the joist, stud,
rafter, or if it's on the face, then protected by something at least as high as it is. At least that is my understanding.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with what you did from a safety
standpoint. I'm just citing what the code says. If they say you can't
run a romex up the bottom of a rafter without a guard strip,
unless it's 7 ft above the floor, then I would think the same applies to your ridgeboard location.
g***@aol.com
2013-12-04 16:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 17:13:44 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...
Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
I would interpret it to mean any stairs, but I don' believe it
says specifically. The point is with any stairs, then the attic is
readily accessible to most people for storage, etc.
I have pull down stairs to my crawl space attic, which is used for storage.
The roof structure is set up similar to this image, with a ridge board that
is wider than the rafter ends.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Drz5ZCpSROo/TK9gbBj5WDI/AAAAAAAAAPY/dLXzBGm1UAo/s1600/Ridge+Beam.jpg
I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.
Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.
Thoughts?
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to be
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
I read it to say he was stapling it down side of the ridge board.
(following the building finish)
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-04 16:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 17:13:44 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by DerbyDad03
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Why is it that you cannot staple romex to the underside or bottom of
attic rafters? I can see if it is the ceiling joist
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
Agree with the reason. But as I recall, there are exceptions that
allow you to nail to rafters if it's not a generally accessible location
that people can easily get to.
Just checked. And from the NEC, appears to me that if the attic has
stairs, then the cable needs to be protected by guard strips if it's
run across rafters and within 7 ft of the attic floor. If it's only
accessible by scuttle hole, then said protection only applies within
6 ft of the scuttle hole. 320.23 is what applies. That section is
for type AC cable, but in the NM section it says that section also
applies to NM.
Just curious...
Do "stairs" include pull-down stairs or do they (the NEC) mean permanent
stairs only?
I would interpret it to mean any stairs, but I don' believe it
says specifically. The point is with any stairs, then the attic is
readily accessible to most people for storage, etc.
I have pull down stairs to my crawl space attic, which is used for storage.
The roof structure is set up similar to this image, with a ridge board that
is wider than the rafter ends.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Drz5ZCpSROo/TK9gbBj5WDI/AAAAAAAAAPY/dLXzBGm1UAo/s1600/Ridge+Beam.jpg
I put a light fixture at each end of the attic with a switch in the middle.
The Romex is stapled to the face of the ridge board where it extends below
the rafters. The switch is attached to the ridge board between 2 rafters
and is reachable as soon as you climb the stairs enough that your upper
body is in the attic.
Since the Romex never crosses any open space, I assume it's alright the way
it is.
Thoughts?
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to be
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
I read it to say he was stapling it down side of the ridge board.
(following the building finish)
I read it again and now it's not clear to me what he means. Your
interpretation may be correct. He said he stapled it to the face of
the ridge board. I was thinking face in the context of what I think
the electrical code means. Face would be the part of the joists,
studs, rafters, etc that are facing inward, toward the attic. So,
I took it to mean stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board.
But you may be correct, it's logical that he could have meant he
stapled it to the side of the ridge board, in which case I agree
it's 100% OK.

Even if he stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board, which I
don't think meets the letter of the code, I would think many, maybe
most inspectors wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see any
safety problem with it. If you did it on the top of a joist, then
you could kick it, slide boxes into it, etc. But up there, can't
see how you could damage it in any way.
DerbyDad03
2013-12-04 19:07:29 UTC
Permalink
...snip...
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to b
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
I read it to say he was stapling it down side of the ridge board.
(following the building finish)
I read it again and now it's not clear to me what he means. Your
interpretation may be correct. He said he stapled it to the face of
the ridge board. I was thinking face in the context of what I think
the electrical code means. Face would be the part of the joists,
studs, rafters, etc that are facing inward, toward the attic. So,
I took it to mean stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board.
But you may be correct, it's logical that he could have meant he
stapled it to the side of the ridge board, in which case I agree
it's 100% OK.
Even if he stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board, which I
don't think meets the letter of the code, I would think many, maybe
most inspectors wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see any
safety problem with it. If you did it on the top of a joist, then
you could kick it, slide boxes into it, etc. But up there, can't
see how you could damage it in any way.
Allow me to try and clear this up.

Assume the white line in the photo below is the Romex. It comes up into the
attic, runs along the rafter and then runs along what I call the "face" of
the ridge board (the "8" in a 1x8).

Loading Image...
c***@snyder.on.ca
2013-12-04 19:31:17 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 19:07:29 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
...snip...
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to b
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
I read it to say he was stapling it down side of the ridge board.
(following the building finish)
I read it again and now it's not clear to me what he means. Your
interpretation may be correct. He said he stapled it to the face of
the ridge board. I was thinking face in the context of what I think
the electrical code means. Face would be the part of the joists,
studs, rafters, etc that are facing inward, toward the attic. So,
I took it to mean stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board.
But you may be correct, it's logical that he could have meant he
stapled it to the side of the ridge board, in which case I agree
it's 100% OK.
Even if he stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board, which I
don't think meets the letter of the code, I would think many, maybe
most inspectors wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see any
safety problem with it. If you did it on the top of a joist, then
you could kick it, slide boxes into it, etc. But up there, can't
see how you could damage it in any way.
Allow me to try and clear this up.
Assume the white line in the photo below is the Romex. It comes up into the
attic, runs along the rafter and then runs along what I call the "face" of
the ridge board (the "8" in a 1x8).
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Romex_zps52024ea0.jpg
Perfectly legal and proper
k***@attt.bizz
2013-12-04 19:37:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 19:07:29 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
...snip...
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to b
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
I read it to say he was stapling it down side of the ridge board.
(following the building finish)
I read it again and now it's not clear to me what he means. Your
interpretation may be correct. He said he stapled it to the face of
the ridge board. I was thinking face in the context of what I think
the electrical code means. Face would be the part of the joists,
studs, rafters, etc that are facing inward, toward the attic. So,
I took it to mean stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board.
But you may be correct, it's logical that he could have meant he
stapled it to the side of the ridge board, in which case I agree
it's 100% OK.
Even if he stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board, which I
don't think meets the letter of the code, I would think many, maybe
most inspectors wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see any
safety problem with it. If you did it on the top of a joist, then
you could kick it, slide boxes into it, etc. But up there, can't
see how you could damage it in any way.
Allow me to try and clear this up.
Assume the white line in the photo below is the Romex. It comes up into the
attic, runs along the rafter and then runs along what I call the "face" of
the ridge board (the "8" in a 1x8).
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Romex_zps52024ea0.jpg
Looks perfectly acceptable to me.
g***@aol.com
2013-12-04 20:36:10 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 19:07:29 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
Allow me to try and clear this up.
Assume the white line in the photo below is the Romex. It comes up into the
attic, runs along the rafter and then runs along what I call the "face" of
the ridge board (the "8" in a 1x8).
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Romex_zps52024ea0.jpg
Rock on dude, you are good to go. That is what I thought you were
saying.
DerbyDad03
2013-12-04 22:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 19:07:29 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
Post by DerbyDad03
Allow me to try and clear this up.
Assume the white line in the photo below is the Romex. It comes up into the
attic, runs along the rafter and then runs along what I call the "face" of
the ridge board (the "8" in a 1x8).
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Romex_zps52024ea0.jpg
Rock on dude, you are good to go. That is what I thought you were
saying.
Thanks...I figured I was OK.

The only thing I didn't mention was that I ran out of Romex so the wiring
is a mixture of Romex, BX cable, K&T and some bell wire. The bell wire is
only used for the Danish 107-2-DI receptacle that I had lying around. If
you trim and bend the prongs of a standard US plug you can get it into
those Danish receptacles...sort of.

I don't think it's anything an inspector would have an issue with. ;-)
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-04 21:30:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by DerbyDad03
...snip...
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by g***@aol.com
If I understand your description it sounds legal to me.
320.15 Exposed Work.
Exposed runs of cable, except as provided in 300.11(A), shall closely
follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Exposed runs shall also be permitted to be installed on the underside
of joists where supported at each joist and located so as not to b
subject to physical damage.
As pointed out previously, it's section 320.23 that specifically addresses
attics and from my interpretation, it appears to say otherwise. Again,
I don't see anything wrong with it from a safety standpoint, I'd
do it myself that way, but it doesn't appear to me to meet the requirements of 320.23.
I read it to say he was stapling it down side of the ridge board.
(following the building finish)
I read it again and now it's not clear to me what he means. Your
interpretation may be correct. He said he stapled it to the face of
the ridge board. I was thinking face in the context of what I think
the electrical code means. Face would be the part of the joists,
studs, rafters, etc that are facing inward, toward the attic. So,
I took it to mean stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board.
But you may be correct, it's logical that he could have meant he
stapled it to the side of the ridge board, in which case I agree
it's 100% OK.
Even if he stapled it to the bottom of the ridge-board, which I
don't think meets the letter of the code, I would think many, maybe
most inspectors wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see any
safety problem with it. If you did it on the top of a joist, then
you could kick it, slide boxes into it, etc. But up there, can't
see how you could damage it in any way.
Allow me to try and clear this up.
Assume the white line in the photo below is the Romex. It comes up into the
attic, runs along the rafter and then runs along what I call the "face" of
the ridge board (the "8" in a 1x8).
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Romex_zps52024ea0.jpg
That's 100% kosher. Sides of the rafters are OK, sides of the ridge-board
are OK.
C***@work.com
2013-12-02 09:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
That is correct. I know that my garage has romex stapled across the
rafters, and that is not up to code, because there should be a board
under it. But I'm not gonna change it. I know better than to use it as
a hanger. It's one of the (What I call), insignificant rules in the
code. I think many of the code rules are important for safety, but many
are also stupid, like this one, even though I do see their point.
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-02 16:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by C***@work.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
That is correct. I know that my garage has romex stapled across the
rafters, and that is not up to code, because there should be a board
under it. But I'm not gonna change it. I know better than to use it as
a hanger. It's one of the (What I call), insignificant rules in the
code. I think many of the code rules are important for safety, but many
are also stupid, like this one, even though I do see their point.
Ummm, regarding hanging clothes on it, what sense does that make?
You can run the romex through holes in the joists/rafters. People can then
just as easily hang clothes on the exposed romex that way too.
=
2013-12-03 14:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by C***@work.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
That is correct. I know that my garage has romex stapled across the
rafters, and that is not up to code, because there should be a board
under it. But I'm not gonna change it. I know better than to use it as
a hanger. It's one of the (What I call), insignificant rules in the
code. I think many of the code rules are important for safety, but many
are also stupid, like this one, even though I do see their point.
Ummm, regarding hanging clothes on it, what sense does that make?
You can run the romex through holes in the joists/rafters. People can then
just as easily hang clothes on the exposed romex that way too.
One explanation (told to me by an older carpenter) is that romex running
over the rafters would prevent a finish board (plywood or dry wall) from
being installed on the rafters. Or worse, the materials would be installed
over the romex with the possibility of screws or nails damaging the wire.
"Happens all the time", he said.

Tomsic
t***@optonline.net
2013-12-03 14:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by =
Post by t***@optonline.net
Post by C***@work.com
Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Post by a***@altavista.net
Just trying to find out the logical reasoning.
Because some idiot could use it for a handhold or a clothesline. The
wire needs to be supported and protected.. Nail a board across the
rafters and you can staple the wire to the board. You CAN staple it
ALONG the rafter, just not across, from what I recollect.
That is correct. I know that my garage has romex stapled across the
rafters, and that is not up to code, because there should be a board
under it. But I'm not gonna change it. I know better than to use it as
a hanger. It's one of the (What I call), insignificant rules in the
code. I think many of the code rules are important for safety, but many
are also stupid, like this one, even though I do see their point.
Ummm, regarding hanging clothes on it, what sense does that make?
You can run the romex through holes in the joists/rafters. People can
then
just as easily hang clothes on the exposed romex that way too.
One explanation (told to me by an older carpenter) is that romex running
over the rafters would prevent a finish board (plywood or dry wall) from
being installed on the rafters. Or worse, the materials would be installed
over the romex with the possibility of screws or nails damaging the wire.
"Happens all the time", he said.
Tomsic
The problem with that theory is the fact that you can apparently run cable across the rafters as long as it's 7ft+ from the floor. Plus, I'm not
sure I'd believe a carpenter when it comes to reasons for electrical codes.
C***@work.com
2013-12-04 00:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by =
Post by t***@optonline.net
Ummm, regarding hanging clothes on it, what sense does that make?
You can run the romex through holes in the joists/rafters. People can then
just as easily hang clothes on the exposed romex that way too.
One explanation (told to me by an older carpenter) is that romex running
over the rafters would prevent a finish board (plywood or dry wall) from
being installed on the rafters. Or worse, the materials would be installed
over the romex with the possibility of screws or nails damaging the wire.
"Happens all the time", he said.
While this is probably true, if the ceiling is gonna be covered at any
point, you obviously dont put the wire on the bottom of the joists. But
in an unfinished attic for example, it's not important. Anyone that
applies plywood /sheetrock, etc on top of the cable is a total idiot.
Not only for safety reasons, but the finished ceiling will be real
uneven. If it needs to be covered then the wire has to be removed and
replaced elsewhere. If the wire is stapled to a board, such as a 1x4,
then that board and wire will both have to be removed and relocated if a
ceiling is to be created.
h***@sbcglobal.net
2013-12-04 16:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Is the ridge board 7' above the floor below it?
h***@sbcglobal.net
2013-12-05 02:54:28 UTC
Permalink
Did you put all the splice points in boxes???
DerbyDad03
2013-12-05 03:43:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
Did you put all the splice points in boxes???
Yes...shoe boxes.

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