copper wire scrap

[Harry K]

I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20 years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap dealers won't take it.

Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.

A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons. Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope heads do it that way.

I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to such?

Harry K

[Retired]

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20
years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap
dealers won't take it.
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.
A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons.
Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope
heads do it that way.
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it
or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a
link to such?
Harry K

Here is a link to a story out of Georgia. It appears that it is mostly
state and/or county laws (probably based on EPA recommendations)

http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2012-01-20/area-men-face-felony-charges-burning-wire

Here is a link to a Texas county's regulation

http://www.parkercountyemergencymanagement.com/BurnNotification.asp

where it says:

"the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the violation involves
the burning of a tire or of insulation on copper wire.

Class A Misdemeanor. An individual adjudged guilty of a Class A
misdemeanor shall be punished by:

1. a fine not to exceed $4,000;
2. confinement in jail for a term not to exceed one year; or
both such fine and confinement."

[Harry K]

Post by Retired

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20

<snip>

Post by Retired
Here is a link to a story out of Georgia. It appears that it is mostly
state and/or county laws (probably based on EPA recommendations)
http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2012-01-20/area-men-face-felony-charges-burning-wire
Here is a link to a Texas county's regulation
http://www.parkercountyemergencymanagement.com/BurnNotification.asp
"the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the violation involves
the burning of a tire or of insulation on copper wire.
Class A Misdemeanor. An individual adjudged guilty of a Class A
1. a fine not to exceed $4,000;
2. confinement in jail for a term not to exceed one year; or
both such fine and confinement."

Yes, I know such laws exist. I was just curious if there is a law specifically prohibiting the scrap yards from buying such scrap.

Harry K

[Oren]

Post by Harry K
Yes, I know such laws exist. I was just curious if there is a law specifically prohibiting the scrap yards from buying such scrap.

Might search your state laws online. Some scrap yards here require
photo identification, finger print and are paid by check only. No
more cash transactions. This is an effort to cut down on copper theft.

Of course a crooked scrap yard will skirt the law.

[g***@aol.com]

Post by Oren

Post by Harry K
Yes, I know such laws exist. I was just curious if there is a law specifically prohibiting the scrap yards from buying such scrap.

Might search your state laws online. Some scrap yards here require
photo identification, finger print and are paid by check only. No
more cash transactions. This is an effort to cut down on copper theft.
Of course a crooked scrap yard will skirt the law.

The loophole in this process is the consolidator who pays about half
the going rate to anyone who brings them anything. They sort it,
crush it into a brick that can't be identified as anything stolen and
sell it to a registered scrap dealer.
They would take this burned wire, put it in the middle of some clean
wire, compact it and sell it.
The smelter would not care.

[c***@snyder.on.ca]

Post by Oren

Post by Harry K
Yes, I know such laws exist. I was just curious if there is a law specifically prohibiting the scrap yards from buying such scrap.

Might search your state laws online. Some scrap yards here require
photo identification, finger print and are paid by check only. No
more cash transactions. This is an effort to cut down on copper theft.
Of course a crooked scrap yard will skirt the law.

Up here (ontario Canada) scrapyards and pawnshops run under the same
basic rules. Photo ID is required and you need to give a plausible
reason for both having and disposing od the items.

[Oren]

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca

Post by Oren

Post by Harry K
Yes, I know such laws exist. I was just curious if there is a law specifically prohibiting the scrap yards from buying such scrap.

Might search your state laws online. Some scrap yards here require
photo identification, finger print and are paid by check only. No
more cash transactions. This is an effort to cut down on copper theft.
Of course a crooked scrap yard will skirt the law.

Up here (ontario Canada) scrapyards and pawnshops run under the same
basic rules. Photo ID is required and you need to give a plausible
reason for both having and disposing od the items.

With our local photo ID, print, check only policy, police use the
information to investigate large scale theft. Easier to track now.

Honest scrap yards cooperate with them to establish a pattern; which
may lead to an arrest for theft.

[C***@work.com]

Post by Harry K
Yes, I know such laws exist. I was just curious if there is a law specifically
prohibiting the scrap yards from buying such scrap.
Harry K

Just think what would happen if your house burned down and you salvage
the copper wire to recycle it.........

[g***@aol.com]

Post by C***@work.com

Post by Harry K
Yes, I know such laws exist. I was just curious if there is a law specifically
prohibiting the scrap yards from buying such scrap.
Harry K

Just think what would happen if your house burned down and you salvage
the copper wire to recycle it.........

I bet if you were a licensed contractor, they would take that wire.

[c***@snyder.on.ca]

Post by Retired

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20
years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap
dealers won't take it.
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.
A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons.
Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope
heads do it that way.
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it
or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a
link to such?
Harry K

Here is a link to a story out of Georgia. It appears that it is mostly
state and/or county laws (probably based on EPA recommendations)
http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2012-01-20/area-men-face-felony-charges-burning-wire
Here is a link to a Texas county's regulation
http://www.parkercountyemergencymanagement.com/BurnNotification.asp
"the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the violation involves
the burning of a tire or of insulation on copper wire.
Class A Misdemeanor. An individual adjudged guilty of a Class A
1. a fine not to exceed $4,000;
2. confinement in jail for a term not to exceed one year; or
both such fine and confinement."

Take it in with a sworn afidavit that the copper has been in storage
in this condition for "X" years. If it was burnrd before it was
illegal, there is no violation.

[Harry K]

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Take it in with a sworn afidavit that the copper has been in storage
in this condition for "X" years. If it was burnrd before it was
illegal, there is no violation.

Now there's an idea. I can come up with witnesses as to when one house and a school was demolished and neighbors can attest to the remodel of my house. That plus being friends (and having worked for) the county Sheriff...

Harry K

[philo]

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20 years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap dealers won't take it.
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.
A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons. Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope heads do it that way.
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to such?
Harry K

I don't know where you live...but in some locations , not only can a
junk yard not take such copper, they are also required to report
you...so you got off easy.

Of course, the copper is worth a lot of money and it seems a shame to
waste it. Possibly you could dump it all out and let the rain and the
elements clean off the soot. In a few years it may be OK?

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by philo 
I don't know where you live...but in some locations , not only can a
junk yard not take such copper, they are also required to report
you...so you got off easy.
Of course, the copper is worth a lot of money and it seems a shame to
waste it. Possibly you could dump it all out and let the rain and the
elements clean off the soot. In a few years it may be OK?

Pressure washer, maybe? Clean it up, some. Sorry
to hear that you got affected by a "well meaning"
law.

[t***@optonline.net]

Post by philo 

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20 years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap dealers won't take it.
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.
A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons. Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope heads do it that way.
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to such?
Harry K

I don't know where you live...but in some locations , not only can a
junk yard not take such copper, they are also required to report
you...so you got off easy.
Of course, the copper is worth a lot of money and it seems a shame to
waste it. Possibly you could dump it all out and let the rain and the
elements clean off the soot. In a few years it may be OK?

I would think it's rather unlikely that rain is going to change it
enough so that it's no longer obvious it's not burned wire. And what
happens if next time they not only won't take it, but rat him out to
the cops?

What a strange world we live in...... It's like they're pointing you
in the direction of illegally dumping it in the woods. Or you could
wait until they have some amnesty program. Heh, maybe even a buyback
program like they do with guns.....

[philo]

On 01/29/2014 07:09 AM, ***@optonline.net wrote:
X

Post by t***@optonline.net

Post by philo 
Of course, the copper is worth a lot of money and it seems a shame to
waste it. Possibly you could dump it all out and let the rain and the
elements clean off the soot. In a few years it may be OK?

I would think it's rather unlikely that rain is going to change it
enough so that it's no longer obvious it's not burned wire. And what
happens if next time they not only won't take it, but rat him out to
the cops?

Between the rain and the sun, the "burning evidence" will eventually
disappear...but how many years it would take...I don't know,

[willshak]

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20 years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap dealers won't take it.
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.
A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons. Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope heads do it that way.
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to such?
Harry K

I don't know if there is such a product that will remove the "evidence",
but what to the recycling plants use?
Tried WD-40??? :-)

Oh, wait! Muriatic acid?

[g***@aol.com]

Post by willshak

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20 years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap dealers won't take it.
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.
A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons. Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope heads do it that way.
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to such?
Harry K

I don't know if there is such a product that will remove the "evidence",
but what to the recycling plants use?
Tried WD-40??? :-)
Oh, wait! Muriatic acid?

That acid would eat the wire and just leave the soot.

Melt it down and skim off the slag but I doubt you would do all of
that for a bucket of wire.

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by g***@aol.com
Melt it down and skim off the slag but I doubt you would do all of
that for a bucket of wire.

How many folks can get hot enough to melt copper? Not me!

[Terry Coombs]

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by g***@aol.com
Melt it down and skim off the slag but I doubt you would do all of
that for a bucket of wire.

How many folks can get hot enough to melt copper? Not me!

I can . Especially if I alloy it with aluminum or zinc .

[k***@attt.bizz]

Post by Terry Coombs

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by g***@aol.com
Melt it down and skim off the slag but I doubt you would do all of
that for a bucket of wire.

How many folks can get hot enough to melt copper? Not me!

I can . Especially if I alloy it with aluminum or zinc .

What's it worth if it's polluted?

[Harry K]

Post by k***@attt.bizz

Post by Terry Coombs

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by g***@aol.com
Melt it down and skim off the slag but I doubt you would do all of
that for a bucket of wire.

How many folks can get hot enough to melt copper? Not me!

I can . Especially if I alloy it with aluminum or zinc .

What's it worth if it's polluted?

As is (burned wire) abut 2/3 of "bright" copper last I checked.

Harry K

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Terry Coombs

Post by Stormin Mormon
How many folks can get hot enough to melt copper? Not me!

I can . Especially if I alloy it with aluminum or zinc .

Hey! OP! Give Snag a call. He can help.

[dpb]

On 1/28/2014 11:43 PM, Harry K wrote:
...

Post by Harry K
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it
or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to

such?
...

Depends entirely on the jurisdiction in which you're trying to make the
sale. If the dealers can't provide exact statute/ordinance reference
(and I'd bet they can since they have to live with it), contact both
local government entity first. In most cases localities have the most
onerous requirements to deter the thieves beyond state and fed
requirements. I don't, however, believe you'll find anything at the EPA
or State level that has any such language on the basis of the
burning-off as the actual limitation.

--

[dpb]

Post by dpb
...

Post by Harry K
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it
or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to

such?
...
Depends entirely on the jurisdiction in which you're trying to make the
sale. If the dealers can't provide exact statute/ordinance reference
(and I'd bet they can since they have to live with it), contact both
local government entity first. In most cases localities have the most
onerous requirements to deter the thieves beyond state and fed
requirements. I don't, however, believe you'll find anything at the EPA
or State level that has any such language on the basis of the
burning-off as the actual limitation.

That's on the scrap left of course, not the actual burning that
undoubtedly is illegal now everywhere in open air. The problem comes in
that there's no way to prove _when_ it was burned, probably.

You might poke around in archives of rec.metalworking--seems to me
there's been discussion there on some home-brew wire insulation strippers.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of amount are we talking here? 20-lb
or several hundred or even thousand? 20 yr is a long time to accumulate
but if it's only 6' now and then and it's all in a barrel doesn't sound
like so much that some occasional hand labor on off-peak times might be
out of the question...

--

[Harry K]

Post by dpb

Post by dpb

Post by Harry K
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it
or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to
such?

Depends entirely on the jurisdiction in which you're trying to make the
sale. If the dealers can't provide exact statute/ordinance reference
(and I'd bet they can since they have to live with it), contact both
local government entity first. In most cases localities have the most
onerous requirements to deter the thieves beyond state and fed
requirements. I don't, however, believe you'll find anything at the EPA
or State level that has any such language on the basis of the
burning-off as the actual limitation.

That's on the scrap left of course, not the actual burning that
undoubtedly is illegal now everywhere in open air. The problem comes in
that there's no way to prove _when_ it was burned, probably.
You might poke around in archives of rec.metalworking--seems to me
there's been discussion there on some home-brew wire insulation strippers.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of amount are we talking here? 20-lb
or several hundred or even thousand? 20 yr is a long time to accumulate
but if it's only 6' now and then and it's all in a barrel doesn't sound
like so much that some occasional hand labor on off-peak times might be
out of the question...

Dunno how much it weighs but I had to move the barrel and couldn't even tip it on edge to roll. It is the residue of two houses and a schoolhouse. Last burn would have been in the early 80s.

Due to the liability I don't think I will be talking to any more scrap yards unless I find a way to clean it :)

Harry K

[c***@snyder.on.ca]

Post by Harry K
I found that my barrel of copper wire scrap that I salvaged over 20 years of demolishing and rehabbing buildings is worthless. Scrap dealers won't take it.
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.
A bit of poking around found that there seems to be two reasons. Burning insulation is banned and a big fine if caught and the dope heads do it that way.
I couldn't discover if there is an actual law against accepting it or just a general agreement not to accept. Anyone know or have a link to such?
Harry K

They will accept salvaged copper from cleanup after a fire, no
problem, so why not from your ancient burn barrel??
I would lay it out on a driveway and have at it with a pressure
washer, then bundle up the cleaned copper into "logs" about 4 inches
by a foot long , and haul it off to my local recycler - I know my
local recycler would take it and at close to the top price.

[Harry K]

On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 21:43:23 -0800 (PST), Harry K >
They will accept salvaged copper from cleanup after a fire, no
problem, so why not from your ancient burn barrel??
I would lay it out on a driveway and have at it with a pressure
washer, then bundle up the cleaned copper into "logs" about 4 inches
by a foot long , and haul it off to my local recycler - I know my
local recycler would take it and at close to the top price.

Up thread someone posted that they take burned copper if one can provide a document from IINM the police that the source was a fire.

Harry K

[Stormin Mormon]

Post by Harry K
Up thread someone posted that they take burned

copper if one can provide a document from IINM
the police that the source was a fire.

Post by Harry K
Harry K

Would not want to take burned copper if the source
was a hurricane, or flood? Might have got burned
copper from a pandemic?

[Harry K]

Post by Harry K

Post by Harry K
Up thread someone posted that they take burned

copper if one can provide a document from IINM
the police that the source was a fire.

Post by Harry K
Harry K

Would not want to take burned copper if the source
was a hurricane, or flood? Might have got burned
copper from a pandemic?
Christopher A. Young

The issue is the _burning_ of it, not the cause of it being burned. I seriously doubt it would be accepted. Burning it is illegal and it could be stripped. In the case of a pandemic? There are always exceptions and I would guess that the 'document from law enforcement' would cover that.

Harry K

[C***@work.com]

Post by Harry K
Reason? I burned the insulation off back when burn barrels were legal.

Fill your suitcase with the wire, get on a plane and fly out to
Nebraska, Wyoming, the Dakotas, etc. Any of those states should buy it.