How to know in advance that water pressure regulator will pour water into your bassement?

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

micky

2024-05-14 18:08:47 UTC

How to know in advance that water pressure regulator will pour water
into your basement?

I've read this group for 30 years and never seen a post about water
pressure regulators, and certainly not about them leaking, or having a
hole an inch in diameter.

https://www.adavenplumbinginc.com/blog/signs-a-water-pressure-regulator-needs-to-be-replaced
by a Plumbing company in Nevada
Signs a Water Pressure Regulator Needs to Be Replaced
Low pressure
High pressure
Strange noises
I Didn't have any of these. (Plus they are not the same as holes.)

Cracked main line
Water pressure regulators are typically installed in the main line of
the house. Their fates are linked: if the line breaks, the same happens
to the regulator relatively quickly.
The best way to detect a cracked main line is to take a closer look at
the pipe. Since this requires advanced equipment and methods, please
leave the work to a licensed plumber.
Still don't have a cracked line, but how is one supposed to know when
it's worth hiring a plumber with "advanced equipment and methods".

OLD AGE
Water pressure regulators have varying lifespans. Some only last 5 to 10
years, whereas others can work great for 15 years with proper
maintenance.
Still, a general rule of thumb is to replace the device after 15 years.
It allows the owner to pre-empt the above issues, which are inevitable
as the unit ages.

Mine lasted 45 years. A neighbor's with a house the same age failed
recently. I have to check about the other 98 houses like mine and warn
them. But even if I warn them, what should they do. Use their thumb to
try to poke a hole in the case?

Does anyone replace premeptively after 15 years? I've read this group
for 30 years and never seen a post about water pressure regulators, and
certainly not about them leaking, or having a hole an inch in diameter.
I have city water, from reservoirs. I'm sure it's of average chemical
makeup.

This one says the same thing:
https://www.rainbowmwd.ca.gov/water-pressure-regulator-faqs#:~:text=The%20life%20expectancy%20of%20a,years%20old%20if%20regularly%20maintained
The life expectancy of a water pressure regulator is most commonly in
the range of 10 to 15 years. However, you may see a regulator
malfunction at three years and one still properly functioning at 20
years old if regularly maintained. RAINBOW MUNICIPAL WATER DISTRICT,
FALLBROOK CA; (760) 728-1178

Bob F

2024-05-14 21:27:23 UTC

Permalink

Post by micky
How to know in advance that water pressure regulator will pour water
into your basement?
I've read this group for 30 years and never seen a post about water
pressure regulators, and certainly not about them leaking, or having a
hole an inch in diameter.
https://www.adavenplumbinginc.com/blog/signs-a-water-pressure-regulator-needs-to-be-replaced
by a Plumbing company in Nevada
Signs a Water Pressure Regulator Needs to Be Replaced
Low pressure
High pressure
Strange noises
I Didn't have any of these. (Plus they are not the same as holes.)
Cracked main line
Water pressure regulators are typically installed in the main line of
the house. Their fates are linked: if the line breaks, the same happens
to the regulator relatively quickly.
The best way to detect a cracked main line is to take a closer look at
the pipe. Since this requires advanced equipment and methods, please
leave the work to a licensed plumber.
Still don't have a cracked line, but how is one supposed to know when
it's worth hiring a plumber with "advanced equipment and methods".
OLD AGE
Water pressure regulators have varying lifespans. Some only last 5 to 10
years, whereas others can work great for 15 years with proper
maintenance.
Still, a general rule of thumb is to replace the device after 15 years.
It allows the owner to pre-empt the above issues, which are inevitable
as the unit ages.
Mine lasted 45 years. A neighbor's with a house the same age failed
recently. I have to check about the other 98 houses like mine and warn
them. But even if I warn them, what should they do. Use their thumb to
try to poke a hole in the case?
Does anyone replace premeptively after 15 years? I've read this group
for 30 years and never seen a post about water pressure regulators, and
certainly not about them leaking, or having a hole an inch in diameter.
I have city water, from reservoirs. I'm sure it's of average chemical
makeup.
https://www.rainbowmwd.ca.gov/water-pressure-regulator-faqs#:~:text=The%20life%20expectancy%20of%20a,years%20old%20if%20regularly%20maintained
The life expectancy of a water pressure regulator is most commonly in
the range of 10 to 15 years. However, you may see a regulator
malfunction at three years and one still properly functioning at 20
years old if regularly maintained. RAINBOW MUNICIPAL WATER DISTRICT,
FALLBROOK CA; (760) 728-1178

Most "failures" can probably be solved with a rebuild kit.

Did you drain the water out of the regulator when you went on those long
cold winter trips?

micky

2024-05-15 01:32:09 UTC

Permalink

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 May 2024 14:27:23 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Most "failures" can probably be solved with a rebuild kit.

That must be what they're talking about, not 1" holes.

No one ever mentioned that either, but I suppose they would have if the
pressure was too high or low or it made strange sounds.

Post by Bob F
Did you drain the water out of the regulator when you went on those long
cold winter trips?

Very insightful. I mean it. No. I drained the pipes but that
wouldn't get the part where it comes in from underground at about 3 feet
high from the basement floor, and then goes through the on/off valve and
the regulator and up to the ceiling. I don't know how to drain it, not
even now. One regulator, of the many I saw, had a draining nipple, and
one version of the ball valve had a draining nipple, but I didn't buy
that version.

FWIW, the hole is at the top of the regulator. I suppose when I'm not
home, it's completely full from bottom to the top. The hole has a
jaggedy edge, in the nature of cast bronze iiuc.

I don't think it would every get below freezing in my basement even
without heat. What do you think? Baltimore and the earth outside goes
up 6 feet from the basement floor. Maybe there is someone I can call
that will know the answer. I always put antifreeze in the laundry tub
trap, but I've never thought it could actually freeze.

Otoh, the trip that started in very late February didn't end until
May, so it would have warmed up by the time I got home. That was in 2017
and I think again starting early February**, 2022. Could it have frozen
in 2022 but not leaked until 2024? **I wish I'd kept better records.
I still have the emails with the airline reservation confirmations, but
I have to hunt.

The last trip started Dec 27 or of last year so and ended January 26.
When I got home, I had to go into the basement to turn on the furnace,
water, and the water heater, and it wasn't very cold in the baseement.
Because I went to Florida and Guatemala, I hadn't even taken a coat with
me, and it didn't bother me and it took at least 5 minutes to turn all 3
on. Jan 26 was a pretty warm day for January, and so was the day I
left. it was easy to get from the house to the taxi and back again. But
I don't know much about the middle of January. I could look it up --
would it be worth it?

I've never drained the water heater. (though I think I forgot to turn it
off the first long trip.)

My two-door-away neigbor said a couple weeks ago that his leaked a
little at first and they tried to stop it with what that Flex Seal or
Flex Tape (that used to advertise constantly (they taped a boat
together). And when that didnt' work they used some other product by
the same company. And when it continued to leak they called a plumber.
I'll try to find out more details. i don't keep track if they take
vacations or when.

Bob F

2024-05-15 05:02:51 UTC

Permalink

Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 May 2024 14:27:23 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Most "failures" can probably be solved with a rebuild kit.

That must be what they're talking about, not 1" holes.
No one ever mentioned that either, but I suppose they would have if the
pressure was too high or low or it made strange sounds.

Post by Bob F
Did you drain the water out of the regulator when you went on those long
cold winter trips?

Very insightful. I mean it. No. I drained the pipes but that
wouldn't get the part where it comes in from underground at about 3 feet
high from the basement floor, and then goes through the on/off valve and
the regulator and up to the ceiling. I don't know how to drain it, not
even now. One regulator, of the many I saw, had a draining nipple, and
one version of the ball valve had a draining nipple, but I didn't buy
that version.
FWIW, the hole is at the top of the regulator. I suppose when I'm not
home, it's completely full from bottom to the top. The hole has a
jaggedy edge, in the nature of cast bronze iiuc.
I don't think it would every get below freezing in my basement even
without heat. What do you think? Baltimore and the earth outside goes
up 6 feet from the basement floor. Maybe there is someone I can call
that will know the answer. I always put antifreeze in the laundry tub
trap, but I've never thought it could actually freeze.
Otoh, the trip that started in very late February didn't end until
May, so it would have warmed up by the time I got home. That was in 2017
and I think again starting early February**, 2022. Could it have frozen
in 2022 but not leaked until 2024? **I wish I'd kept better records.
I still have the emails with the airline reservation confirmations, but
I have to hunt.
The last trip started Dec 27 or of last year so and ended January 26.
When I got home, I had to go into the basement to turn on the furnace,
water, and the water heater, and it wasn't very cold in the baseement.
Because I went to Florida and Guatemala, I hadn't even taken a coat with
me, and it didn't bother me and it took at least 5 minutes to turn all 3
on. Jan 26 was a pretty warm day for January, and so was the day I
left. it was easy to get from the house to the taxi and back again. But
I don't know much about the middle of January. I could look it up --
would it be worth it?
I've never drained the water heater. (though I think I forgot to turn it
off the first long trip.)
My two-door-away neigbor said a couple weeks ago that his leaked a
little at first and they tried to stop it with what that Flex Seal or
Flex Tape (that used to advertise constantly (they taped a boat
together). And when that didnt' work they used some other product by
the same company. And when it continued to leak they called a plumber.
I'll try to find out more details. i don't keep track if they take
vacations or when.

You could wrap that pipe section with pipe heater tape with a thermostat
to turn on the power if the pipe gets below freezing if you plan on
future such trips. You could also get a thermometer with a low temp
indicator so you actually know if it gets that cold there.

Or, just set a full lidded glass jar of water in a pan there. If it's
broken when you get back.....

Even wrapping the pipes there with a bunch of insulation might keep it
unfrozen with heat conducted in by the underground pipes.

micky

2024-05-17 19:40:56 UTC

Permalink

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 May 2024 22:02:51 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 May 2024 14:27:23 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Most "failures" can probably be solved with a rebuild kit.

That must be what they're talking about, not 1" holes.
No one ever mentioned that either, but I suppose they would have if the
pressure was too high or low or it made strange sounds.

Post by Bob F
Did you drain the water out of the regulator when you went on those long
cold winter trips?

Very insightful. I mean it. No. I drained the pipes but that
wouldn't get the part where it comes in from underground at about 3 feet
high from the basement floor, and then goes through the on/off valve and
the regulator and up to the ceiling. I don't know how to drain it, not
even now. One regulator, of the many I saw, had a draining nipple, and
one version of the ball valve had a draining nipple, but I didn't buy
that version.
FWIW, the hole is at the top of the regulator. I suppose when I'm not
home, it's completely full from bottom to the top. The hole has a
jaggedy edge, in the nature of cast bronze iiuc.
I don't think it would every get below freezing in my basement even
without heat. What do you think? Baltimore and the earth outside goes
up 6 feet from the basement floor. Maybe there is someone I can call
that will know the answer. I always put antifreeze in the laundry tub
trap, but I've never thought it could actually freeze.
Otoh, the trip that started in very late February didn't end until
May, so it would have warmed up by the time I got home. That was in 2017
and I think again starting early February**, 2022. Could it have frozen
in 2022 but not leaked until 2024? **I wish I'd kept better records.
I still have the emails with the airline reservation confirmations, but
I have to hunt.
The last trip started Dec 27 or of last year so and ended January 26.
When I got home, I had to go into the basement to turn on the furnace,
water, and the water heater, and it wasn't very cold in the baseement.
Because I went to Florida and Guatemala, I hadn't even taken a coat with
me, and it didn't bother me and it took at least 5 minutes to turn all 3
on. Jan 26 was a pretty warm day for January, and so was the day I
left. it was easy to get from the house to the taxi and back again. But
I don't know much about the middle of January. I could look it up --
would it be worth it?
I've never drained the water heater. (though I think I forgot to turn it
off the first long trip.)
My two-door-away neigbor said a couple weeks ago that his leaked a
little at first and they tried to stop it with what that Flex Seal or
Flex Tape (that used to advertise constantly (they taped a boat
together). And when that didnt' work they used some other product by
the same company. And when it continued to leak they called a plumber.
I'll try to find out more details. i don't keep track if they take
vacations or when.

Both good ideas.

Post by Bob F
Or, just set a full lidded glass jar of water in a pan there. If it's
broken when you get back.....

LOL I guess this would work but it deserves the 3 dots you gave it.

Post by Bob F
Even wrapping the pipes there with a bunch of insulation might keep it
unfrozen with heat conducted in by the underground pipes.

Another good idea.

I could also leave the water dripping, except that as I asked about in
another post, the water seems to turn off by itself. I'd have to leave
it more than dripping because if it was just dripping, I can see it
stopping entirely within a day.

The prior owner was from Louisiana and as warm as Baltimore is, he was
cold all the time, and in addition to his bedroom walls, he insulated
the two outer walls of the basement laundry room, hanging bats of
fiberglass from ceiling to floor, except behind the furnace. That was
one more reason I thought it would not freeze. The other basement room
was finished by the builder with "wood paneling". Probably no
insulation behind it but even an air space behind it that's confined by
the paneling would act as insulation.

Weather Underground, wunderground.com says that during January at the
airport near here (they don't have historical data for as many locations
as they have current data), from January 15th to 24th the max temp was
31 to 25 to 39 to 45 with
the average at 28, 28, 21, 28, 30, 23, 26, 28, 34 and
the minimum at 25, 16, 13, 16, 23, 16, 18, 16, 24.

So that's 8 days with the average below freezing. With my house as
described, do you think that's enough to freeze the pipe?

Which is more important, the average or the minimum?

Do you think the pipe can freeze in late January and not end my water
pressure until April 24? Maybe it was cracked and dribbling all that
time?

And the airport is little lower altitude, 300 feet lower, and probably
warmer than where I live. When I worked at Beth Steel, on the water,
I'd drive to work and see the amount of snow on the ground get less and
less as I got closer to the water.

If the answer is that I let the pipe freeze, I guess I was 'too smart by
half', thinking I knew how to protect myself. I saved 300 in fuel oil
and an unknown amount in electricity, but I had to pay 150 for the
regulator and another 40 or so for other parts. The water has dried
out and I don't think it did other damage except to the cardboard boxes.
(OTOH, I didn't have to buy a rebuild kit!! that I was apparently due
for.)

I'm definitely going to go see my brother again, esp. since he's getting
noticeably old, and the best time is when it's cold here, January,
February, but only for a week at a time, and I'll turn the heat down but
leave it on. (I may even go in the summer and remind myself why I
don't want to move to Florida, no offense meant, Ed.)

Bob F

2024-05-18 22:54:33 UTC

Permalink

Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 May 2024 22:02:51 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 14 May 2024 14:27:23 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Most "failures" can probably be solved with a rebuild kit.

That must be what they're talking about, not 1" holes.
No one ever mentioned that either, but I suppose they would have if the
pressure was too high or low or it made strange sounds.

Post by Bob F
Did you drain the water out of the regulator when you went on those long
cold winter trips?

Very insightful. I mean it. No. I drained the pipes but that
wouldn't get the part where it comes in from underground at about 3 feet
high from the basement floor, and then goes through the on/off valve and
the regulator and up to the ceiling. I don't know how to drain it, not
even now. One regulator, of the many I saw, had a draining nipple, and
one version of the ball valve had a draining nipple, but I didn't buy
that version.
FWIW, the hole is at the top of the regulator. I suppose when I'm not
home, it's completely full from bottom to the top. The hole has a
jaggedy edge, in the nature of cast bronze iiuc.
I don't think it would every get below freezing in my basement even
without heat. What do you think? Baltimore and the earth outside goes
up 6 feet from the basement floor. Maybe there is someone I can call
that will know the answer. I always put antifreeze in the laundry tub
trap, but I've never thought it could actually freeze.
Otoh, the trip that started in very late February didn't end until
May, so it would have warmed up by the time I got home. That was in 2017
and I think again starting early February**, 2022. Could it have frozen
in 2022 but not leaked until 2024? **I wish I'd kept better records.
I still have the emails with the airline reservation confirmations, but
I have to hunt.
The last trip started Dec 27 or of last year so and ended January 26.
When I got home, I had to go into the basement to turn on the furnace,
water, and the water heater, and it wasn't very cold in the baseement.
Because I went to Florida and Guatemala, I hadn't even taken a coat with
me, and it didn't bother me and it took at least 5 minutes to turn all 3
on. Jan 26 was a pretty warm day for January, and so was the day I
left. it was easy to get from the house to the taxi and back again. But
I don't know much about the middle of January. I could look it up --
would it be worth it?
I've never drained the water heater. (though I think I forgot to turn it
off the first long trip.)
My two-door-away neigbor said a couple weeks ago that his leaked a
little at first and they tried to stop it with what that Flex Seal or
Flex Tape (that used to advertise constantly (they taped a boat
together). And when that didnt' work they used some other product by
the same company. And when it continued to leak they called a plumber.
I'll try to find out more details. i don't keep track if they take
vacations or when.

Both good ideas.

Post by Bob F
Or, just set a full lidded glass jar of water in a pan there. If it's
broken when you get back.....

LOL I guess this would work but it deserves the 3 dots you gave it.

Post by Bob F
Even wrapping the pipes there with a bunch of insulation might keep it
unfrozen with heat conducted in by the underground pipes.

It could have been stressed then , then some surge or water hammer
finished it off.

Post by micky
And the airport is little lower altitude, 300 feet lower, and probably
warmer than where I live. When I worked at Beth Steel, on the water,
I'd drive to work and see the amount of snow on the ground get less and
less as I got closer to the water.
If the answer is that I let the pipe freeze, I guess I was 'too smart by
half', thinking I knew how to protect myself. I saved 300 in fuel oil
and an unknown amount in electricity, but I had to pay 150 for the
regulator and another 40 or so for other parts. The water has dried
out and I don't think it did other damage except to the cardboard boxes.
(OTOH, I didn't have to buy a rebuild kit!! that I was apparently due
for.)
I'm definitely going to go see my brother again, esp. since he's getting
noticeably old, and the best time is when it's cold here, January,
February, but only for a week at a time, and I'll turn the heat down but
leave it on. (I may even go in the summer and remind myself why I
don't want to move to Florida, no offense meant, Ed.)

Modern thermostats may not go there, but setting it at 40 or less would
do it, assuming the basement gets a little of the heat.

You could put a thermostat near that pipe set at 35, either for the
furnace, or just an electric heater there.

micky

2024-05-19 02:14:27 UTC

Permalink

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 18 May 2024 15:54:33 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Post by micky
I'm definitely going to go see my brother again, esp. since he's getting
noticeably old, and the best time is when it's cold here, January,
February, but only for a week at a time, and I'll turn the heat down but
leave it on. (I may even go in the summer and remind myself why I
don't want to move to Florida, no offense meant, Ed.)

Modern thermostats may not go there, but setting it at 40 or less would
do it, assuming the basement gets a little of the heat.

If it didn't get heat there, the pipes would have frosen even when I was
home and didn't turn the thermostat down at all. But maybe not when
the temp is set at 40.

The furnace is in that room and it and the flue radiate a little heat.
The next room has a heaing duct.

Post by Bob F
You could put a thermostat near that pipe set at 35, either for the
furnace, or just an electric heater there.

That's a good idea. the furnace is close enough, on the other side of
the room, and it's easy to put two thermostats in parallel. I have a
spare thermostat.

I put in a second valve, a sharkbite ball valve, since the gate valve
had to be turned fairly hard to stop the water completely. (But I left
the gate valve too) and it occurrec to me I could change that out with a
sharkbit gate valve with a drain nipple, and that would drain the water
out of the the pressure regulator and top 4 feet of pipe. But then I
realizeed it sill wouldnt drain the lowest foot of pipe or the gate
valve, from where it enters. Too clever by half! That's me. I'm glad
I didnt' tell anyone in my n'hood what I did, so none of them are
imitating me.

Maybe the reason it never feels that cold down there or in other
basements is that there is no wind, of course, and it's wind on your
skin that really makes one feel cold. But water in a pipe doesn't care
about that.

I have enjoyed the plumbing experience.

The instructions that accompany the regulator say it's preset to 50 PSI,
but the new gauge I bought, also from Watts, says the pressure is 40 and
very steady. (Hasn't gone up in 4 days. Probably hasn't gone down.)

Which one do you think is more likely to be wrong?

Bob F

2024-05-19 04:21:29 UTC

Permalink

Post by micky
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 18 May 2024 15:54:33 -0700, Bob F

Post by Bob F

Modern thermostats may not go there, but setting it at 40 or less would
do it, assuming the basement gets a little of the heat.

If it didn't get heat there, the pipes would have frosen even when I was
home and didn't turn the thermostat down at all. But maybe not when
the temp is set at 40.
The furnace is in that room and it and the flue radiate a little heat.
The next room has a heaing duct.

Post by Bob F
You could put a thermostat near that pipe set at 35, either for the
furnace, or just an electric heater there.

It could have just died of old age. Maybe it never did freeze. It is
hard to tell after the fact.

Post by micky
Maybe the reason it never feels that cold down there or in other
basements is that there is no wind, of course, and it's wind on your
skin that really makes one feel cold. But water in a pipe doesn't care
about that.
I have enjoyed the plumbing experience.
The instructions that accompany the regulator say it's preset to 50 PSI,
but the new gauge I bought, also from Watts, says the pressure is 40 and
very steady. (Hasn't gone up in 4 days. Probably hasn't gone down.)
Which one do you think is more likely to be wrong?

Hard to tell. I find gauges to vary significantly. Same with tire gauges.

Cindy Hamilton

2024-05-19 08:57:13 UTC

Permalink

Post by micky
Maybe the reason it never feels that cold down there or in other
basements is that there is no wind, of course, and it's wind on your
skin that really makes one feel cold.

I'll try to remember that the next time I'm out in calm, subzero
weather. It's not the temperature; it's the wind.

--
Cindy Hamilton

micky

2024-05-19 16:47:27 UTC

Permalink

In alt.home.repair, on 19 May 2024 08:57:13 GMT, Cindy Hamilton

Post by Cindy Hamilton

Post by micky
Maybe the reason it never feels that cold down there or in other
basements is that there is no wind, of course, and it's wind on your
skin that really makes one feel cold.

I'll try to remember that the next time I'm out in calm, subzero
weather. It's not the temperature; it's the wind.

Duh, of course both matter but when it's 20 degrees, it's the wind that
makes the difference. You can see this outdoors too, not just in
basements, but outdoors there is often some wind, even on "calm" days.

Cindy Hamilton

2024-05-15 09:13:42 UTC

Permalink

Post by micky
FWIW, the hole is at the top of the regulator. I suppose when I'm not
home, it's completely full from bottom to the top. The hole has a
jaggedy edge, in the nature of cast bronze iiuc.

Cavitation.

--
Cindy Hamilton