Angle Grinder or Huge Bolt Cutter

[Robert Green]

My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

--
Bobby G.

[willshak]

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?
P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.
Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?
--
Bobby G.

Anything is classified as a burglar tool if it is used in a burglary.
Use a butter knife to break into a house, it becomes a burglary tool.

[Robert Green]

"willshak" <***@00hvc.rr.com> wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

Post by willshak

Post by Robert Green
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

Anything is classified as a burglar tool if it is used in a burglary.
Use a butter knife to break into a house, it becomes a burglary tool.

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. My recollection is that bolt cutters (and
lock picking tools) were illegal to possess in some jurisdictions
*regardless* of whether they had been used in a burglary unless owned by a
licensed locksmith. The mere possession of such items was enough to be
charged. Anyway, that's what I recall, but that was a long, long time ago
when the small pair of bolt-cutters I own first fell off the passing truck.
(-: This was NYC, home of the Sullivan law, armored cable in residences
rule and lots of other laws peculiar to very large cities.

--
Bobby G.

[Jim Yanik]

Post by willshak

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or
a 4' long bolt cutter?

Easy answer;
the angle grinder can be used for all sorts of things(with the right sort
of wheels),the bolt cutter is of very limited use.
I've even seen a biscuit joiner adapter for an angle grinder. Woodworkers
carve wood sculptures with them.

Post by willshak

Post by Robert Green
P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been
watching all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are
on (to my wife's great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage
auctions!"). I see just about an equal amount of the above tools to
pop the lock. Also learned that it's very useful to use Visegrips to
lock the hasp to the shackle before cutting to keep the blade from
jumping and shattering.
Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant
to an angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a
unique shackle shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but
it the end it all clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch
anything recently cut by a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can
sized motor. Dat sucker's hot. (And yet people seemed so transfixed
by how fast the lock was cut they try to pick up the pieces anyway).
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall
from childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools
allowed only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear
that?
--
Bobby G.

Anything is classified as a burglar tool if it is used in a burglary.
Use a butter knife to break into a house, it becomes a burglary tool.

if you have your bolt cutter in your car,or on your person and lack a
legitimate reason for it being there,then it's a "burglar tool"(especially
if you are on someone else's property),but if it's in/around your own
home,it's not. Common sense.

[Robert Green]

Post by Jim Yanik

Post by Robert Green
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or
a 4' long bolt cutter?

Easy answer;
the angle grinder can be used for all sorts of things(with the right sort
of wheels),the bolt cutter is of very limited use.
I've even seen a biscuit joiner adapter for an angle grinder. Woodworkers
carve wood sculptures with them.

Sounds like a plan. I've been using a battery powered Dremel for a lot of
stuff I probably should have been using an angle grinder for . . .

<stuff snipped>

Post by Jim Yanik
if you have your bolt cutter in your car,or on your person and lack a
legitimate reason for it being there,then it's a "burglar tool"(especially
if you are on someone else's property),but if it's in/around your own
home,it's not. Common sense.

I tend to agree with Steve B. on this one. It's probably not illegal pe se
(still haven't asked a real authority in my own jurisdiction, the final
arbiter of stuff like this) but it *could* end up badly in a couple of
scenarios. One is that for some reason I get stopped after a burglarly
where a bolt cutter was used. When the Beltway Sniper was erroneously
reported as driving a white van in the DC area a few years back, a very
large number of white vans were stopped and searched. I'm betting more than
a few of those drivers got busted for having *something* they shouldn't
have. One poor guy even had a legal rifle that happened to match the
caliber of the one the sniper was using - boy did HE have a bad, bad day.
You can always end up in the criminal justice system by accident. (FWIW,
the sniper was driving big, old car (Impala?) with a hole drilled through
the rear of the car to shoot from. His smallish teenage accomplice in the
trunk did most of the shooting. IIRC.)

The other scenario is if the cop is pissed off and looking to get off patrol
and back to the station for some reason. (-:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=42961

says:

<<Current law bans the possession of burglar tools such as "slim jims,"
shaved keys and bolt cutters, if law enforcement can establish the intent to
use these items to break-in and/or steal a car. Previously, police officers
and deputies could not arrest a suspect carrying those devices to steal a
motorcycle because it was not against the law. However, all that changes on
January 1st, 2011, thanks to the introduction of California Penal Code
Section 466.65. The new law creates a parallel offense which makes it a
misdemeanor to possess specified tools with the intent to unlawfully take or
drive a motorcycle. Violators face up to six months in jail and fines up to
$1,000.>>]

While it seems to agree with the general opinion that there needs to be a
"crime" associated with the possession, as Steve B. pointed out, you could
still have to prove that to the court - after you've been arrested, booked,
your car impounded, etc. Not worth the risk to keep them in the car trunk -
although I am not sure I would want to, anyway.

It's all moot because I'm going with the angle grinder. The obvious
sentiment here (I think it was DD_BobK who said he's used his twice in five
years) is that the bolt cutters are far less useful, all around, than angle
grinders. So it really doesn't matter if they're illegal in any of the
jurisdictions I pass through. One reason I am worried is that in DC, at
least before the Heller suit, someone with a license for a handgun in VA and
MD could NOT pass through DC without risking arrest. I had a carry permit
in both states and could never cut across the District because they did not
honor the permits of other states.

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?
P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.
Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?
--
Bobby G.

Get a good grinder at the pawn shop for $25. You can use it for other
things. A bolt cutter is a bolt cutter.

"Burglary tools" are considered in the context they were found in. If a guy
is inside a house that isn't his, and has lock picks, or other tools, that
can be construed as burglary tools. Same thing with finding them in a car
if the person has a history of burglary. But, without probable cause, there
is no reason to believe they were used in a crime. Yet, one can be
arrested, charged, and pay a lot for an attorney before it's all sorted out.

I carry lock picks, slim jims, plus an assortment of security defeating
devices that I use to evaluate the security levels of real estate
properties. So long as you are not out there skulking around in the night
time, there is little to connect you to any criminal activity.

It's just up to the mentality of the LEO you encounter.

Steve

[Robert Green]

"Steve B" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:SscGq.3194$***@news.usenetserver.com...

<stuff snipped>

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

"Burglary tools" are considered in the context they were found in. If a guy
is inside a house that isn't his, and has lock picks, or other tools, that
can be construed as burglary tools. Same thing with finding them in a car
if the person has a history of burglary. But, without probable cause, there
is no reason to believe they were used in a crime. Yet, one can be
arrested, charged, and pay a lot for an attorney before it's all sorted out.

That's pretty much what I remember. My dad wouldn't carry them in the trunk
because it could lead to problems that might be costly to sort out. He had
some outrageous level of clearance for working on nuke subs and the FBI
routinely questioned our neighbors back when they really investigated
people. He actually built some clips to (sort of) conceal under the saw

Post by Steve B
I carry lock picks, slim jims, plus an assortment of security defeating
devices that I use to evaluate the security levels of real estate
properties. So long as you are not out there skulking around in the night
time, there is little to connect you to any criminal activity.
It's just up to the mentality of the LEO you encounter.

That's a big spin of the wheel in some places. For quite some time I used
to Metro to Philly and rent a car to get to some DoD sites in the area, some
of which are in less than stellar neighborhoods. I used to find syringes,
roaches (both kinds), roach clips and all sorts of other very odd things in
the map pockets and under the seats of the cars I rented at the train
station.

Apparently drug runners use rental cars to circumvent asset forfeiture laws
and the I-95 corridor is a prime conduit. It's a little different now that
bomb sniffing dogs "work" the trains just like the legless (?) guys used to
roll from car to car on little dollies in the NYC subways in 60's. At least
that's what I thought when I first saw them. I thought it was a seeing eye
dog until I saw the submachine gun. (-: I remember thinking "I hope that's
Homeland Security and not some blind guy with an H&K." You may laugh, but
plenty of blind people own guns.

--
Bobby G.

[DD_BobK]

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around?  An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?
P.S.  Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!").  I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock.  Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.
Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file.  One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor.  Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor.  Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc.  Anyone ever hear that?
--
Bobby G.

I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.

I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

Don't look or behave like a burglar and you've got nothing to worry
about.

cheers
Bob

[Robert Green]

"DD_BobK" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-

<stuff snipped>

<<I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.

I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

Don't look or behave like a burglar and you've got nothing to worry
about.>>

I guess I knew the answer before asking. The angle grinder. I need to saw
the head off one of those obscenely huge duplicate car keys. An angle
grinder would make short work of it. Probably could build a little sliding
jig for the Dremel and do it that way. The reality is there's not much I'd
do that the Dremel can't do with a little effort. Still, it's Christmas and
I have to do my part to stimulate the economy . . .

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-
<stuff snipped>
<<I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.
I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

I have five grinders. I like more than one, because it saves time changing
blades. I use them every time I go to the shop.

I have a pair of 42" (!) bolt cutters. I use them very infrequently, but
when I do use them, they're the cat's meow

Steve

[Robert Green]

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-
<stuff snipped>
<<I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.
I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

I have five grinders. I like more than one, because it saves time changing
blades. I use them every time I go to the shop.

I have two Dremels, one pretty much always loaded with a cut off disc, the
other with a wire brush. I use them at least twice a week. So I know the
value of rotating tools. The grinders are so damn cheap at HF on sale I
probably will acquire both variable and set speed grinders as they come on
sale because battery powered Dremels are a little underpowered for jobs like
padlock cutting.

Post by Steve B
I have a pair of 42" (!) bolt cutters. I use them very infrequently, but
when I do use them, they're the cat's meow

The big bolt cutters are a bit like magic in how quickly they cut through
something we all assumed was hard to defeat like a padlock. Truth be told,
I have no real use for them. I just want them. (-:

--
Bobby G.

[Harry K]

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-
<stuff snipped>
<<I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.
I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years......   I use the
grinders every month.

I have five grinders.  I like more than one, because it saves time

changing

blades.  I use them every time I go to the shop.

I have two Dremels, one pretty much always loaded with a cut off disc, the
other with a wire brush.  I use them at least twice a week.  So I know the
value of rotating tools.  The grinders are so damn cheap at HF on sale I
probably will acquire both variable and set speed grinders as they come on
sale because battery powered Dremels are a little underpowered for jobs like
padlock cutting.

I have a pair of 42" (!) bolt cutters.  I use them very infrequently, but
when I do use them, they're the cat's meow

The big bolt cutters are a bit like magic in how quickly they cut through
something we all assumed was hard to defeat like a padlock.  Truth be told,
--
Bobby G.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I often wondered why people snip the padlock. The hasp on the door is
a lot smaller, easier and I don't think it is even hardened.

Harry K

[Robert Green]

"Harry K" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a4f4b355-14e3-456b-a97e-

Post by Harry K
I often wondered why people snip the padlock. The hasp on the door is
a lot smaller, easier and I don't think it is even hardened.

So they can just replace the lock without having to replace the lock AND the
hasp.

--
Bobby G.

[Harry K]

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around?  An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?
P.S.  Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!").  I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock.  Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.
Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file.  One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor.  Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor.  Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc.  Anyone ever hear that?
--
Bobby G.

Get the angle grinder. Used for many other jobs. A bolt cutter is
pretty much a one purpose tool and you will probably not use but a few
times in your entire life...unless you take up burglary.

Harry K

[Robert Green]

"Harry K" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd5b322e-428f-44be-a756-

<stuff snipped>

<<Get the angle grinder. Used for many other jobs. A bolt cutter is
pretty much a one purpose tool and you will probably not use but a few
times in your entire life...unless you take up burglary.>>

I was hoping that people were going to chime in with a million and one uses
for a 4' bolt cutter. I use the 18" to cut heavy gauge Romex because of the
leverage, but I Dremel most things I'd be tempted to use the bolt cutters
for. Still, they're cool to watch in action . . .

--
Bobby G.

[Stormin Mormon]

I've got both (well, my bolt cutters are three foot, not four). I've used
the angle grinder many more times than bolt cutters, and for variety of
different tasks. Angle grinder can be used to sharpen blades, enlarge holes
in metal, sand the bottom off a wood door, and gosh knows what.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Harry K" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:fd5b322e-428f-44be-a756-***@b14g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

Get the angle grinder. Used for many other jobs. A bolt cutter is
pretty much a one purpose tool and you will probably not use but a few
times in your entire life...unless you take up burglary.

Harry K

[Doug Miller]

Post by Stormin Mormon
I've got both (well, my bolt cutters are three foot, not four). I've used
the angle grinder many more times than bolt cutters, and for variety of
different tasks. Angle grinder can be used to sharpen blades, enlarge holes
in metal, sand the bottom off a wood door, and gosh knows what.

Please fix your newsreader configuration. It's still incorrect.

[Robert Green]

Post by Stormin Mormon
I've got both (well, my bolt cutters are three foot, not four). I've used
the angle grinder many more times than bolt cutters, and for variety of
different tasks. Angle grinder can be used to sharpen blades, enlarge holes
in metal, sand the bottom off a wood door, and gosh knows what.

The Dremel does a lot of that, but it's battery powered. I've got a busload
of sanders - belt, orbital, etc. so that area's pretty well covered. I can
see the advantage of having a big diameter blade, an electric motor and
possibly a variable speed unit. (-: Cutting the rusted lock off would have
gone 10X as fast, at least.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Neville]

Post by Robert Green
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

Clearly the angle grinder. I've used mine for all sorts of metal work, bed
frames, etc.

Post by Robert Green
P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!").

I agree with your wife. My understanding is those shows seed the storage units.
If there was anything of value in there, it would only be because someone forgot
about it.

[Robert Green]

"Robert Neville" <***@bother.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

<stuff snipped>

Post by Robert Neville

Post by Robert Green
P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!").

I agree with your wife. My understanding is those shows seed the storage units.
If there was anything of value in there, it would only be because someone forgot
about it.

Even if they don't seed them, there's little to prevent the owner of the
storage units from clipping the lock off the abandoned units before the
auction, rummaging for anything good and relocking it with a new lock. Who
would know? I actually believe a fair amount do get abandoned for various
reasons like death, illness, bankruptcy and forgetfulness. One of these days
they are going to find an active crime scene and maybe a body part or two.

I had a friend whose company specialized in cleanups of dwellings where the
owner/renter had died or vanished. They found LOTS of very interesting and
valuable stuff. Her husband always came in and pulled all the sink traps
because they often contained diamond rings and earrings he'd resell.
Eventually, though, all the stuff they salvaged ended up crowding them out
of their house. They had a room full of un-opened toys that drove their
poor kid neurotic knowing Daddy had a special toy room full of toys he could
never play with. Now they're splitting it in a bad market due to divorce.

--
Bobby G.

[Jim Elbrecht]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Less cost, more use, and takes up about the same amount of room as a
pair of 4' bolt cutters. [I've got a 2' pair.]

I cut my re-rod with a cutoff saw. My brother-in-law, a strapping
young lad with a pair of 5' bolt cutters that weigh 80 pounds or so-
uses the bolt cutter.

-snip-

Post by Robert Green
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

In your shop, or in the back of your truck, they aren't burglar tools.
In your hand as you lurk around the back of the storage lockers-- they
become burglar tools.

Just like that 12" crescent wrench under my seat isn't a dangerous
weapon until I smack you up aside the head with it. Then it
becomes up tot he responding officer to determine if an additional
charge would be appropriate.

Jim

[t***@optonline.net]

Lets' see. We've got a guy here who:

A - Wants to know what tool is best for cutting through
locks.

B - Recently cut through a lock

C - Is concerned about whether police classify
bolt cutters as burglar tools.

D - Has a demonstrated dislike for big business

E - - Recently went from basic to premium cable.

Anybody have any ideas what he's doing?

[Vic Smith]

Post by Jim Elbrecht
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Didn't know they were so inexpensive.
What are you using them for?
Air or electric?
I do mostly auto wrench turning and never felt the need for one.
When I use a hacksaw or a Dremel cut off wheel on a bad bolt that heat
won't loosen, it's always in a place that's a tight fit.
If I did my own exhaust work anymore I might use one, but when I did I
can't recall ever having a big problem using wrenches and a hacksaw.
Once in a while I find myself cutting angle iron or bar stock with a
hacksaw - and I wish I had a band saw.
Don't use a power wire brush often, and either I use the one on my
bench grinder or chuck one in a drill.
Sharpen hand tools and mower blades on the bench grinder.
Haven't had to remove many padlocks.
If there was no bolt cutter handy, the few I've had to remove yielded
to laying a wrench on the body inside the shackle and one whack of the
hammer.
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.
Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

--Vic

[Stormin Mormon]

While you're at HF getting angle grinder, they have a "Sawzall" knock off
that goes on sale for $20 now and again.

I changed the tail pipe on my van yesterday, barely before the rain moved
in. I thought the two exhaust clamp nuts would loosen, but they sheared the
shaft right off. Ah, well.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Vic Smith" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
I do mostly auto wrench turning and never felt the need for one.
When I use a hacksaw or a Dremel cut off wheel on a bad bolt that heat
won't loosen, it's always in a place that's a tight fit.
If I did my own exhaust work anymore I might use one, but when I did I
can't recall ever having a big problem using wrenches and a hacksaw.
Once in a while I find myself cutting angle iron or bar stock with a
hacksaw - and I wish I had a band saw.


Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

--Vic

[Vic Smith]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:20:47 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

Post by Stormin Mormon
While you're at HF getting angle grinder, they have a "Sawzall" knock off
that goes on sale for $20 now and again.
I changed the tail pipe on my van yesterday, barely before the rain moved
in. I thought the two exhaust clamp nuts would loosen, but they sheared the
shaft right off. Ah, well.

That's the usual with exhaust clamps. No time to even think about
using an angle grinder.
I've already got a big Milwaukee Sawzall, a Christmas gift some years
ago.
Hardly ever used it. Shame.
Sawzall was handy going through plumbing walls and cutting out old
pipe when I was working for a plumber. That one was his.
But you got me thinking about that.
I've got a lot of trees/weed trees alongside my garage I'm going to
cut out in the spring. Many 2-3" diameter.
This time I'm going to do it right and lay material afterwards so the
growth doesn't come back.
Last time about 5 years ago I bought a cheap electric chain saw for
it, but never covered the ground afterwards.
Pretty sure that chain saw is either gone or broken.
Anyway, I looked to see if Sawzall pruning blades are sold.
Yep, and folks are using Sawzalls for pruning with good results.
So my Sawzall will finally get a workout.

--Vic

[Robert Green]

Post by Vic Smith
Anyway, I looked to see if Sawzall pruning blades are sold.
Yep, and folks are using Sawzalls for pruning with good results.
So my Sawzall will finally get a workout.

After I got stung multiple times by wasps this year, I cut down all the Rose
of Sharon shrubs that had about 2" thick canes with my very rarely used
Sawzall with just a normal woodcutting blade. Cut 'em "like buttah." I
think it was the second time I used it in 5 years.

--
Bobby G.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

Post by Vic Smith

Post by Jim Elbrecht
In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Didn't know they were so inexpensive.

The cheapest HF ones are 'good enough' for quick and dirty jobs and I
don't worry about dust or gunk wreaking havoc. If I'm going to be
using it for an hour or so, I'll load up the Hitachi. It cost a
bit more, but it just *feels better* in the hand and will probably
last longer.

Post by Vic Smith
What are you using them for?

2 have wire brushes. [one straight-- 1 cupped, braided wire]
1 always has a rough metal cutting disk.
the fourth might have a sanding/abrasion disk for metal or masonry.

I've used one in a rig that makes it a mini-chop saw. I can't
remember what I was cutting, but it was lots of small pieces and I had
better control with it than the big cutoff saw.

A friend used my Lancelot [chainsaw teeth around a disk] disk in the
Hitachi to carve a 400 pound pumpkin. One of these days I'll get
around to using it, too.<g>

Post by Vic Smith
Air or electric?

Electric.

Post by Vic Smith
I do mostly auto wrench turning and never felt the need for one.

It is dirty work-- but I grab one to sand, grind or cut metal & some
masonry.

Post by Vic Smith
When I use a hacksaw or a Dremel cut off wheel on a bad bolt that heat
won't loosen, it's always in a place that's a tight fit.

No good for tight spots. But good for making a spot 'not so tight'-
if the surrounding material doesn't need to be saved.<g>

-snip-

Post by Vic Smith
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.
Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

You need one. [or 5-- Steve and I have both admitted to having 5. --
and I forgot the old beast of an 8" that I picked up at a yard sale &
have only used once in a decade.]

Jim

[Robert Green]

Post by Jim Elbrecht
You need one. [or 5-- Steve and I have both admitted to having 5. --
and I forgot the old beast of an 8" that I picked up at a yard sale &
have only used once in a decade.]

I've seen them cutting off locks with an 8" grinder that had a coffee-can
sized motor. Cut through a lock shackle like it was made of licorice. Why
isn't that spelled licorish? (-:

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green

Post by Jim Elbrecht
You need one. [or 5-- Steve and I have both admitted to having 5. --
and I forgot the old beast of an 8" that I picked up at a yard sale &
have only used once in a decade.]

I've seen them cutting off locks with an 8" grinder that had a coffee-can
sized motor. Cut through a lock shackle like it was made of licorice.
Why
--
Bobby G.

Make that six. I forgot the beast. I rarely use it.

Steve

[Robert Green]

Post by Vic Smith
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.

--
Bobby G.

[Vic Smith]

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:29:49 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green

Post by Vic Smith
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.

Right. Didn't connect it. Hard to do unless you have the experience.
Reminds me of a scene where a friend of mine tore into our branch
manager really hard at a Christmas party.
When the manager arrived he made the rounds doing the normal
hand-shaking greetings.
It was nothing to me when he shook my hand.
But upon shaking my friend's hand, my friend exploded.
Too hearty a handshake.
Apparently in great pain, and favoring his shoulder, he yelled at the
manager,
"God dammit! What's wrong with you?!?!
I told you I had osteo-whatever !!!
What the hell's wrong with you?!?!?"

Never saw him go off like that.
I felt bad for the manager, as he meant no harm, just good will.
But apparently this wasn't the first time for this.
Anyway, seems the Dremel is your best bet for the key.
Much less strain than hefting an angle grinder.

--Vic

[Robert Green]

Post by Vic Smith
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:29:49 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green

Post by Vic Smith
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.

Right. Didn't connect it. Hard to do unless you have the experience.
Reminds me of a scene where a friend of mine tore into our branch
manager really hard at a Christmas party.
When the manager arrived he made the rounds doing the normal
hand-shaking greetings.
It was nothing to me when he shook my hand.
But upon shaking my friend's hand, my friend exploded.
Too hearty a handshake.
Apparently in great pain, and favoring his shoulder, he yelled at the
manager,
"God dammit! What's wrong with you?!?!
I told you I had osteo-whatever !!!
What the hell's wrong with you?!?!?"
Never saw him go off like that.
I felt bad for the manager, as he meant no harm, just good will.
But apparently this wasn't the first time for this.

It's something that's talked about on arthritis support groups. It means
you have to wear a very obvious hand brace (I have about 12, depending on
the task, including two "dress braces" for fancy parties). It's the only
way to ward off the super hardy handshakes which tend to do a lot of bone on
bone grinding on the recipient. It makes people scream if you catch them
just right. AMHIK.

My wrist is "blown out" along with the tendon that wraps around the thumb.
Very odd things set it off, like pushing the release/lock button on
seatbelts, opening wide mouthed jars (oil filter wrench takes care of that),
repetitive hand sawing and hand sanding and new ones popping up all the
time. Sometimes it hurts for no particular reason at all. )-: Oh, I
forgot. Turning on clamp lamps with the rotating switch does it, too,
because it involves a very complex thumb and wrist interaction where you
extend your thumb and pull back your forefinger at the same time. I have
converted most of them to a push button which can be operated by someone
with a stump. Planning for the grim, grim future.

Post by Vic Smith
Anyway, seems the Dremel is your best bet for the key.
Much less strain than hefting an angle grinder.

I was thinking of mounting it on a carriage to make it a Radial Dremel Saw.
(-: That way I could keep the cut straight and not have to continual hold
the Dremel at just the right angle. What bugs me is that I think I saw such
a "slide table" in the HF catalogs, but I recycle the old ones in the dog's
poop tray so there's no going back to look at them. I think it was an
attachment for a dial gauge or something similar. I can probably cobble one
together from a short drawer slide.

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green

Post by Vic Smith
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.
--
Bobby G.

When fully set up, I have my 24" bolt cutters slide into holders on my
welding table. It is soooooo easy to cut flatbar with them when fabbing
things that have small pieces. Snip!

Steve

[Robert Green]

Post by Vic Smith
Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

Better plug your ears with wax like Ulysses so you can't hear the siren call
of the cheap angle grinder. After reading this thread, if HF wasn't closed,
I'd be driving up there now.

I do recall one of the HF grinders came without any disks or even a spindle.
I found the lack of spindle odd.

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

Post by Jim Elbrecht
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

Post by Jim Elbrecht
Less cost, more use, and takes up about the same amount of room as a
pair of 4' bolt cutters. [I've got a 2' pair.]
I cut my re-rod with a cutoff saw. My brother-in-law, a strapping
young lad with a pair of 5' bolt cutters that weigh 80 pounds or so-
uses the bolt cutter.

Yeowch! No rebar cutting forseen around here. Five footers? The lever is
amazing. Imagine trying to cut through rebar with a 6" diagonal cutter.

Post by Jim Elbrecht
-snip-

Post by Robert Green
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

In your shop, or in the back of your truck, they aren't burglar tools.
In your hand as you lurk around the back of the storage lockers-- they
become burglar tools.
Just like that 12" crescent wrench under my seat isn't a dangerous
weapon until I smack you up aside the head with it. Then it
becomes up tot he responding officer to determine if an additional
charge would be appropriate.

There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder and
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for the
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty much
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and only
one time when I had them!).

--
Bobby G.

[chaniarts]

Post by Robert Green

Post by Jim Elbrecht
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a

4'

Post by Jim Elbrecht

Post by Robert Green
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

i've been using a 4" HF grinder with a diamond blade to cut granite
slabs and rough up the edges of the resulting pieces. that's an
incredibly dusty job and the dust eats motors, but the grinder has been
going good for years.

[Attila.Iskander]

Post by Robert Green

Post by Jim Elbrecht
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a

4'

Post by Jim Elbrecht

Post by Robert Green
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

Post by Jim Elbrecht
Less cost, more use, and takes up about the same amount of room as a
pair of 4' bolt cutters. [I've got a 2' pair.]
I cut my re-rod with a cutoff saw. My brother-in-law, a strapping
young lad with a pair of 5' bolt cutters that weigh 80 pounds or so-
uses the bolt cutter.

Yeowch! No rebar cutting forseen around here. Five footers? The lever is
amazing. Imagine trying to cut through rebar with a 6" diagonal cutter.

Post by Jim Elbrecht
-snip-

Post by Robert Green
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall

from

Post by Jim Elbrecht

Post by Robert Green
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

In your shop, or in the back of your truck, they aren't burglar tools.
In your hand as you lurk around the back of the storage lockers-- they
become burglar tools.
Just like that 12" crescent wrench under my seat isn't a dangerous
weapon until I smack you up aside the head with it. Then it
becomes up tot he responding officer to determine if an additional
charge would be appropriate.

There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder and
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for the
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty much
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had
professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and only
one time when I had them!).

How would the police know what you have in your car or truck UNLESS you
allow them to search it ?
Were I ever asked by a police officer to have a look in my car, my response
would be why ?
But ultimately my response would be "Thank you for offering, BUT NO !"

I once got stopped on the highway for no reason other than allegedly my car
looked like a car they were looking for.
When I declined to have my car searched, the office indicated that he would
be calling a sniffer dog, and that could take hours before one was available
My response was:
"That's OK, I've got both reading material and work I can do while we're
waiting."
"Oh, and I have some extra water, if you need some when you're
waiting.."
"And naturally, you won't have any objections to my using a video-cam to
tape the process of sniffing my car.... I can set up on the berm over there
out of the handler's way..."
That clearly didn't make him that happy.
He let me go soon after.

[Robert Green]

<stuff snipped>

Post by Attila.Iskander

Post by Robert Green
There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder and
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for the
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty much
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and only
one time when I had them!).

How would the police know what you have in your car or truck UNLESS you
allow them to search it ?
Were I ever asked by a police officer to have a look in my car, my response
would be why ?
But ultimately my response would be "Thank you for offering, BUT NO !"

Once you refuse, they escalate, reflexively.

Post by Attila.Iskander
I once got stopped on the highway for no reason other than allegedly my car
looked like a car they were looking for.
When I declined to have my car searched, the office indicated that he would
be calling a sniffer dog, and that could take hours before one was available
"That's OK, I've got both reading material and work I can do while we're
waiting."
"Oh, and I have some extra water, if you need some when you're
waiting.."
"And naturally, you won't have any objections to my using a video-cam to
tape the process of sniffing my car.... I can set up on the berm over there
out of the handler's way..."
That clearly didn't make him that happy.
He let me go soon after.

My news editor had a favorite speech about deferring to the cops that said,
basically: "You're alone in the dark with a guy who has a gun. He also has
a radio that he can use to summon dozens more like him, all well-armed and
very likely to side with their brother cop. Act accordingly." So I do.

We recently had a case where cops roughed up two reporters who were writing
a story about a corrupt county executive. The case has gone nowhere, none
of the dash cams in what I believe were 7 cars involved in the incident were
working at the time, etc. The reporters were following the county exec in a
rental car and the cops assumed they were terrorists.

When I was a police reporter I made sure to cultivate and maintain good
relations with every cop I ran into. Even though I had an official press
pass and most beat cops had seen me talking to their lieutenants and
captains, working an active crime scene with the police makes them very,
very nervous. I always tried to interview every cop I saw at a scene just
so that they would get to know my face and thus be less likely to shoot me
by accident in a hairy situation.

I know what my rights are and yet know that sometimes the right thing to do
is not push a weak hand. As the cops of that era were so fond of saying:
"When the bullets are flying, get out your Constitution and see how many
bullets it stops." That, and "I'd rather be tried by 6 men in a box than
carried out in a box by 6 men" when talking about potentially questionable
shootings.

--
Bobby G.

[Attila.Iskander]

Post by Robert Green
<stuff snipped>

Post by Attila.Iskander

Post by Robert Green
There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder

and

Post by Attila.Iskander

Post by Robert Green
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for

the

Post by Attila.Iskander

Post by Robert Green
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty

much

Post by Attila.Iskander

Post by Robert Green
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and

only

Post by Attila.Iskander

Post by Robert Green
one time when I had them!).

How would the police know what you have in your car or truck UNLESS you
allow them to search it ?
Were I ever asked by a police officer to have a look in my car, my

response

Post by Attila.Iskander
would be why ?
But ultimately my response would be "Thank you for offering, BUT NO !"

Once you refuse, they escalate, reflexively.

Post by Attila.Iskander
I once got stopped on the highway for no reason other than allegedly my

car

Post by Attila.Iskander
looked like a car they were looking for.
When I declined to have my car searched, the office indicated that he

would

Post by Attila.Iskander
be calling a sniffer dog, and that could take hours before one was

available

Post by Attila.Iskander
"That's OK, I've got both reading material and work I can do while

we're

Post by Attila.Iskander
waiting."
"Oh, and I have some extra water, if you need some when you're
waiting.."
"And naturally, you won't have any objections to my using a video-cam

to

Post by Attila.Iskander
tape the process of sniffing my car.... I can set up on the berm over

there

Post by Attila.Iskander
out of the handler's way..."
That clearly didn't make him that happy.
He let me go soon after.

My news editor had a favorite speech about deferring to the cops that said,
basically: "You're alone in the dark with a guy who has a gun. He also has
a radio that he can use to summon dozens more like him, all well-armed and
very likely to side with their brother cop. Act accordingly." So I do.
We recently had a case where cops roughed up two reporters who were writing
a story about a corrupt county executive. The case has gone nowhere, none
of the dash cams in what I believe were 7 cars involved in the incident were
working at the time, etc. The reporters were following the county exec in a
rental car and the cops assumed they were terrorists.
When I was a police reporter I made sure to cultivate and maintain good
relations with every cop I ran into. Even though I had an official press
pass and most beat cops had seen me talking to their lieutenants and
captains, working an active crime scene with the police makes them very,
very nervous. I always tried to interview every cop I saw at a scene just
so that they would get to know my face and thus be less likely to shoot me
by accident in a hairy situation.
I know what my rights are and yet know that sometimes the right thing to do
"When the bullets are flying, get out your Constitution and see how many
bullets it stops." That, and "I'd rather be tried by 6 men in a box than
carried out in a box by 6 men" when talking about potentially questionable
shootings.

'I'll just respond to the above clichés with the following
Your rights are like a line in the sand. Every time you step back and let
someone step over it , and then bend down to draw a new line, you have just
given up some of that right
It your right is not worth protecting from the little encroachments, soon
you won't have any rights at all
Just look at the history of how government encroach on your rights one small
step at a time.

[Steve B]

"Robert Green" <***@yah00.com> wrote


I would, but all I have is big

Post by Robert Green
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and only
one time when I had them!).
--
Bobby G.

The thing you are referring to, I believe, are cable cutters. They are like
diagonal pliers, but don't have straight blades. They have two C shaped
sharp blades that keep the cable in a circle. They are very common for
welders, as they cut fine wire copper cable just fine. A good pair are $50,
tho.

Steve

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

Post by Robert Green

Post by Jim Elbrecht
In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

I haven't had any. I have seen one [my brother's- running a Lancelot
blade] that self destructed.

Mine don't get a whole lot of use-- but what they get is rough &
dirty.

Jim

[Robert Green]

<stuff snipped>

Post by Jim Elbrecht

Post by Robert Green
Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

I haven't had any. I have seen one [my brother's- running a Lancelot
blade] that self destructed.

I give up. Lancelot blade? Used for cutting round tables? Sharpening

Post by Jim Elbrecht
Mine don't get a whole lot of use-- but what they get is rough &
dirty.

Carving up dusty stuff killed the low speed setting on one of my Dremels.
Hopefully the HF grinders are more resistant.

--
Bobby G.

[Jim Elbrecht]

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:41:35 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green
<stuff snipped>

Post by Jim Elbrecht

Post by Robert Green
Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

I haven't had any. I have seen one [my brother's- running a Lancelot
blade] that self destructed.

I give up. Lancelot blade? Used for cutting round tables? Sharpening

It is a wood-carving blade. The company name never registered with
me, though I've known about these guys for decades.
http://katools.com/product-support/tool-instructions/assembly-instructions-lancelot-and-squire/

King Arthur tools has stepped it up a notch- now you can put 2 of
these on one angle grinder.

Jim

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green
Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

HF puts out a lot of stuff that lasts a long time. I just like quality in
some of my tools. I use the grinders a LOT. Mainly finding one that fits
good in your hands is a lot of it. You can use it long enough in a day that
your hands vibrate like jello for about ten minutes after you put it down.
Comfort also means safety. I got a freebie 4.5" grinder with the chop saw I
recently bought. The two for $120 were what I thought was a deal. The
grinder has a new type of switch arrangement for me, a paddle type. I
didn't like it at first, but now love it, and it is so much easier on the
grip. If you let go, it stops. The others have a slider switch, and can
keep running if they jump away from you. Or towards you.

If you use a grinder infrequently, the HF are just fine.

Steve

[Robert Green]

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

HF puts out a lot of stuff that lasts a long time. I just like quality in
some of my tools. I use the grinders a LOT. Mainly finding one that fits
good in your hands is a lot of it. You can use it long enough in a day that
your hands vibrate like jello for about ten minutes after you put it down.
Comfort also means safety. I got a freebie 4.5" grinder with the chop saw I
recently bought. The two for $120 were what I thought was a deal. The
grinder has a new type of switch arrangement for me, a paddle type. I
didn't like it at first, but now love it, and it is so much easier on the
grip. If you let go, it stops. The others have a slider switch, and can
keep running if they jump away from you. Or towards you.

Looking at the "Lancelot" blade that Jim talked about (chain saw teeth on a
wheel) I can see the benefit of a paddle/dead man's switch. Wouldn't want
that sucker running wild.

I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green
I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.
--
Bobby G.

I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."

The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

Steve

[Robert Green]

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."
The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

The worse thing I think I've ever seen was when a pickup truck with 11
highschoolers in the back overturned at what the cops said was in excess of
80MPH. Every single one of them died, and several had their skin abraded
right down to the bone. It was hard to tell they were even human - it
looked like a butcher counter.

Whenever I see kids riding in the back of a pickup truck, I dial 911. I am
sure the drivers and riders don't realize the kinds of chances they are
taking when they ride in the back without belts or protection of any kind.
It was one of those accidents where rescue workers end up in counseling
because the damage is so gruesome.

Can't seem to find it on the net, but it happened almost 30 years ago (could
it be that long?) when I was still a reporter and stuff that old rarely
makes its way to the net except in paid newspaper archives. I shouldn't be
surprised. Three of the publications I worked for went under completely,
leaving no trace. A witness to the crash said they scattered like bowling
pins and when she realized that she heard the impact and the skidding but no
screaming that they all were dead.

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length

hair.

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up
against

his

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different

kind

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."
The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

The worse thing I think I've ever seen was when a pickup truck with 11
highschoolers in the back overturned at what the cops said was in excess of
80MPH. Every single one of them died, and several had their skin abraded
right down to the bone. It was hard to tell they were even human - it
looked like a butcher counter.
Whenever I see kids riding in the back of a pickup truck, I dial 911. I am
sure the drivers and riders don't realize the kinds of chances they are
taking when they ride in the back without belts or protection of any kind.
It was one of those accidents where rescue workers end up in counseling
because the damage is so gruesome.
Can't seem to find it on the net, but it happened almost 30 years ago (could
it be that long?) when I was still a reporter and stuff that old rarely
makes its way to the net except in paid newspaper archives. I shouldn't be
surprised. Three of the publications I worked for went under completely,
leaving no trace. A witness to the crash said they scattered like bowling
pins and when she realized that she heard the impact and the skidding but no
screaming that they all were dead.
--
Bobby G.

In Nevada, everything in the back of a pickup is considered cargo. Even a
five year old. Go figger.

Steve

[k***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length

hair.

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up
against

his

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different

kind

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."
The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

The worse thing I think I've ever seen was when a pickup truck with 11
highschoolers in the back overturned at what the cops said was in excess of
80MPH. Every single one of them died, and several had their skin abraded
right down to the bone. It was hard to tell they were even human - it
looked like a butcher counter.
Whenever I see kids riding in the back of a pickup truck, I dial 911. I am
sure the drivers and riders don't realize the kinds of chances they are
taking when they ride in the back without belts or protection of any kind.
It was one of those accidents where rescue workers end up in counseling
because the damage is so gruesome.
Can't seem to find it on the net, but it happened almost 30 years ago (could
it be that long?) when I was still a reporter and stuff that old rarely
makes its way to the net except in paid newspaper archives. I shouldn't be
surprised. Three of the publications I worked for went under completely,
leaving no trace. A witness to the crash said they scattered like bowling
pins and when she realized that she heard the impact and the skidding but no
screaming that they all were dead.
--
Bobby G.

In Nevada, everything in the back of a pickup is considered cargo. Even a
five year old. Go figger.

Every state I've lived in, a five-year old in the back of a pickup is a
vacation to the greybar motel. Even a dog in the back can get you arrested.

[Jim Elbrecht]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 02:44:41 -0500, "Robert Green"

Post by Robert Green

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

HF puts out a lot of stuff that lasts a long time. I just like quality in
some of my tools. I use the grinders a LOT. Mainly finding one that fits
good in your hands is a lot of it. You can use it long enough in a day

that

Post by Steve B
your hands vibrate like jello for about ten minutes after you put it down.
Comfort also means safety. I got a freebie 4.5" grinder with the chop saw

I

Post by Steve B
recently bought. The two for $120 were what I thought was a deal. The
grinder has a new type of switch arrangement for me, a paddle type. I
didn't like it at first, but now love it, and it is so much easier on the
grip. If you let go, it stops. The others have a slider switch, and can
keep running if they jump away from you. Or towards you.

Looking at the "Lancelot" blade that Jim talked about (chain saw teeth on a
wheel) I can see the benefit of a paddle/dead man's switch. Wouldn't want
that sucker running wild.

The paddle is a good idea--- and having one *real nice* angle grinder
is, too. The feel, the balance, and hopefully longevity are worth a
few bucks.

There is a flat spot on the *back* of angle grinders so you can set it
down with the wheel up. For some reason *remembering* to put it
down right is incredibly hard. I've trained myself, but I was going
nuts reminding my friend [the pumpkin carver with the Lancelot blade]
to put it down right.

I got the 'cheap' lesson [as in 'no blood shed'] one time when I set
it down after I'd pulled the cord a touch too far & lost power. When I
plugged it in, that thing did about a 3 foot leap towards me.
*Somebody* had forgotten to turn it off *and* set it down wrong.

Post by Robert Green
I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

EEEw-- just got a visual of that happening with a Lancelot blade.

Jim

[Steve B]

Post by Jim Elbrecht
I got the 'cheap' lesson [as in 'no blood shed'] one time when I set
it down after I'd pulled the cord a touch too far & lost power. When I
plugged it in, that thing did about a 3 foot leap towards me.
*Somebody* had forgotten to turn it off *and* set it down wrong.
Jim

I love that scene in Captain Ron where Martin Short (?) plugs in the belt
sander, and it comes across the deck and gets him right in the kisser,
knocking him into the Gulf of Mexico. Yep, those things that turn fast can
be dangerous.

Steve

[Robert Green]

Post by Jim Elbrecht

Post by Robert Green
Looking at the "Lancelot" blade that Jim talked about (chain saw teeth on a
wheel) I can see the benefit of a paddle/dead man's switch. Wouldn't want
that sucker running wild.

The paddle is a good idea--- and having one *real nice* angle grinder
is, too. The feel, the balance, and hopefully longevity are worth a
few bucks.
There is a flat spot on the *back* of angle grinders so you can set it
down with the wheel up. For some reason *remembering* to put it
down right is incredibly hard. I've trained myself, but I was going
nuts reminding my friend [the pumpkin carver with the Lancelot blade]
to put it down right.

Reminds me of when I has the RAS blade set a little too high for the plywood
I was cutting and it "walked" up onto the surface of the work at right at me
at about Warp Six. I am sure that if all of us in AHR told our stories we
could end up with a fat book titled: "How My Power Tool Tried to Kill Me."
I wonder if some of the people we haven't heard from in a while could write
"and succeeded" as a postscript. I finally had to abandon my arthritis
group because so many people I got to know and like would die. It was very
depressing.

Post by Jim Elbrecht
I got the 'cheap' lesson [as in 'no blood shed'] one time when I set
it down after I'd pulled the cord a touch too far & lost power. When I
plugged it in, that thing did about a 3 foot leap towards me.
*Somebody* had forgotten to turn it off *and* set it down wrong.

Yeah, that *somebody's* been hanging around here, too. I remember working
on space heater that needed to have the fan replaced. I pulled the plug
from the wall and starting unscrewing stuff until I touched the connectors
for the motor and jumped about five feet straight up from the shock. I had
unplugged *something* - it just turned out to be something other than the
heater.

Post by Jim Elbrecht

Post by Robert Green
I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

EEEw-- just got a visual of that happening with a Lancelot blade.

I suspect that it would do a little more damage than just knocking someone
out. It could easily knock them into heaven (or hell).

--
Bobby G.

[Existential Angst]

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?
P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.
Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

Heh, oxy-acetylene....
Looks cool, too.... impresses the gerlz....
I guess the cops could call O/A "bank robbers' tools".... LOL

[John Gilmer]

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

When I was doing a project which required me to "cut" threaded rod, I
used an air powered "cut off" tool. It's held in one hand and frees
the other hand to steady or hold what you are cutting.

In that instance a bolt cutter wouldn't do the job because it would do
more damage to the thread that a re-treading die could cure.

BUT bolt cutters have their place and it isn't just in cutting locks.

If you use chains or are working on a "chain link" fence, or you want to
cut wire cable, "bolt cutters" can do in a few seconds what would take
any rotary tool (angle grinder, cut off tool) minutes to do. Moreover,
there would be no noise, no hot sparks (which CAN set stuff on fire), no
metallic dust residue and no risk of a abrasive wheel flying apart.

If you do buy a bolt cutter buy the biggest ones you can. The smaller
ones are good for concealing but they might be defeated by a good lock.

BTW: A "Saws All" is also a good tool to use to cut "bolts." It
doesn't make as much noise or sparks as an abrasive cutting wheel but
still, usually, can get the job done with the right blade. "They" make
battery powered "Saws All"s now.

[Robert Green]

<stuff snipped>

Post by John Gilmer
When I was doing a project which required me to "cut" threaded rod, I
used an air powered "cut off" tool. It's held in one hand and frees
the other hand to steady or hold what you are cutting.
In that instance a bolt cutter wouldn't do the job because it would do
more damage to the thread that a re-treading die could cure.
BUT bolt cutters have their place and it isn't just in cutting locks.
If you use chains or are working on a "chain link" fence, or you want to
cut wire cable, "bolt cutters" can do in a few seconds what would take
any rotary tool (angle grinder, cut off tool) minutes to do. Moreover,
there would be no noise, no hot sparks (which CAN set stuff on fire), no
metallic dust residue and no risk of a abrasive wheel flying apart.
If you do buy a bolt cutter buy the biggest ones you can. The smaller
ones are good for concealing but they might be defeated by a good lock.

If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny 18"
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex with
short-handled cutters.

Post by John Gilmer
BTW: A "Saws All" is also a good tool to use to cut "bolts." It
doesn't make as much noise or sparks as an abrasive cutting wheel but
still, usually, can get the job done with the right blade. "They" make
battery powered "Saws All"s now.

It wasn't until recently when I bought I hammer drill with a huge A/C motor
that I realized how underpowered many battery powered devices are compared
to A/C units. I was using it with an earth auger to drill holes in the lawn
for termite bait tubes. When it hit a tough spot, it took everything I had
to hold onto the drill because it had so much torque.

--
Bobby G.

[John Gilmer]

Post by Robert Green
If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny 18"
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex with
short-handled cutters.

It's up to you how you spend your money but it often pays to get the
exactly right tool even if you only use it once or twice.

Romex type table has Cu (or sometimes, Al) conductors plus plastic and,
sometimes, fabric, paper.

These are much softer than just about any steel and are best cut with a
"bypass" type, cable cutter. Such a cutter will minimize the damage to
the ends of the conductor. It reduces waste and, just as important,
saves the time needed to "fix" or trim the ends of the individual
conductors before making your connections.

Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut. That's not a problem because you know in
advance that you are destroying the "bolt."

[Robert Green]

Post by John Gilmer

Post by Robert Green
If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny 18"
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex with
short-handled cutters.

It's up to you how you spend your money but it often pays to get the
exactly right tool even if you only use it once or twice.
Romex type table has Cu (or sometimes, Al) conductors plus plastic and,
sometimes, fabric, paper.
These are much softer than just about any steel and are best cut with a
"bypass" type, cable cutter. Such a cutter will minimize the damage to
the ends of the conductor. It reduces waste and, just as important,
saves the time needed to "fix" or trim the ends of the individual
conductors before making your connections.

The issue here is hand strength. The bolt cutters make it easy to slice the
12/2 and 12/3 w/ground cable off the roll. Once it's separated into
individual conductors, I can usually cut through or trim the single
connectors without too much trouble from arthritis. I also use the bolt
cutters to slice through RG6QS which has a copper clad steel center wire. I
unfortunately nicked up my best wire cutter/stripper for Romex by cutting
the CATV steel core cable before realizing it. With 18" handles by bolt
cutters are more like oversized wire cutters than bolt cutters.

Post by John Gilmer
Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut. That's not a problem because you know in
advance that you are destroying the "bolt."

That's interesting. Oddly enough, I just looked closely at my ancient,
scroll worked-handled, fell-off-a-garbage truck bolt cutters and they have
two identically shaped cutter blades. They don't seem to mangle the Romex
quite as badly as I imagine the anvil style cutters you are describing do.

I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
going to be THIS bad!" (-:

Thanks for your input, John.

--
Bobby G.

[John]

Post by Robert Green

Post by John Gilmer

Post by Robert Green
If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny

18"

Post by John Gilmer

Post by Robert Green
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex

with

Post by John Gilmer

Post by Robert Green
short-handled cutters.

It's up to you how you spend your money but it often pays to get the
exactly right tool even if you only use it once or twice.
Romex type table has Cu (or sometimes, Al) conductors plus plastic and,
sometimes, fabric, paper.
These are much softer than just about any steel and are best cut with a
"bypass" type, cable cutter. Such a cutter will minimize the damage to
the ends of the conductor. It reduces waste and, just as important,
saves the time needed to "fix" or trim the ends of the individual
conductors before making your connections.

The issue here is hand strength. The bolt cutters make it easy to slice the
12/2 and 12/3 w/ground cable off the roll. Once it's separated into
individual conductors, I can usually cut through or trim the single
connectors without too much trouble from arthritis. I also use the bolt
cutters to slice through RG6QS which has a copper clad steel center wire. I
unfortunately nicked up my best wire cutter/stripper for Romex by cutting
the CATV steel core cable before realizing it. With 18" handles by bolt
cutters are more like oversized wire cutters than bolt cutters.

Post by John Gilmer
Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut. That's not a problem because you know in
advance that you are destroying the "bolt."

That's interesting. Oddly enough, I just looked closely at my ancient,
scroll worked-handled, fell-off-a-garbage truck bolt cutters and they have
two identically shaped cutter blades. They don't seem to mangle the Romex
quite as badly as I imagine the anvil style cutters you are describing do.
I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
Thanks for your input, John.
--
Bobby G.

I have similar problems (just getting way too f* old) and I find that
long handled loppers are great for trimming shrubs and small (3/4" or
less depending on species) tree branches. Not only easier on the hands
but less bending over. You also can pick up a lot of the larger stuff
with the loppers just don't cut through when you go to pick it up off
the ground.

They are great for trimming thorny rose bushes.

John

[Robert Green]

<stuff snipped>

Post by John

Post by Robert Green
I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
Thanks for your input, John.

I have similar problems (just getting way too f* old) and I find that
long handled loppers are great for trimming shrubs and small (3/4" or
less depending on species) tree branches. Not only easier on the hands
but less bending over. You also can pick up a lot of the larger stuff
with the loppers just don't cut through when you go to pick it up off
the ground.

There was a time when I could walk around the house with a small pair of
pruning shears and get most of the trimming done. Now it's the long handled
loppers or more and more frequently, the Sawzall. I use them as "picker
uppers" too. Always reminds me of a crocodile carrying her young around in
her mouth. I remember seeing some horror film where they were being used to
remove fingers, one by one, which I am sure they can do with ease.

Post by John
They are great for trimming thorny rose bushes.

All my rose bushes died when I was on travel during an extended
rought. )-: I've never replaced them but maybe it's time to try again. I
used to bring in freshly cut roses for all the admin. assistants in my group
at work and somehow, my work always seemed to float to the front of the
queue.

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

Post by Robert Green
That's interesting. Oddly enough, I just looked closely at my ancient,
scroll worked-handled, fell-off-a-garbage truck bolt cutters and they have
two identically shaped cutter blades. They don't seem to mangle the Romex
quite as badly as I imagine the anvil style cutters you are describing do.
I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
Thanks for your input, John.
--
Bobby G.

It has been eight days now since me and two assistants put up about 1100 sf
of steel roofing on my shop. I am still very sore in my bad shoulder,
hands, and wrists. AND, I bought the Dewalt combo 18v. drill and impact
driver just for the job. Still, it kicked my butt. It goes like that now.
Work a while. Recover. Repeat until done, which is never. But I do know
my tool arsenal is growing. Next things are an electric caulk gun and air
pop rivet tool. I am going to have to do a lot of caulk on this building,
and I'm not squeezing cold caulk with my hands. Same thing on pop rivets.
Oh, I could do it, I just couldn't wipe myself for a few days after.

Steve

[Robert Green]

Post by Steve B

Post by Robert Green
"I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was

It has been eight days now since me and two assistants put up about 1100 sf
of steel roofing on my shop. I am still very sore in my bad shoulder,
hands, and wrists. AND, I bought the Dewalt combo 18v. drill and impact
driver just for the job. Still, it kicked my butt. It goes like that now.
Work a while. Recover. Repeat until done, which is never. But I do know
my tool arsenal is growing. Next things are an electric caulk gun and air
pop rivet tool. I am going to have to do a lot of caulk on this building,
and I'm not squeezing cold caulk with my hands. Same thing on pop rivets.
Oh, I could do it, I just couldn't wipe myself for a few days after.

I wish that was all that happened when I overdid and raked 17 bags of leaves
in one afternoon. I could hardly lower myself to the commode. What really
bothers me these days is the tendon damage I sustained to my hand. Every
once in a while, it spasms so badly I drop whatever's in my hand. Mostly
it's lunch that ends up on the floor, but every once in a while it's a
running power tool. I just make sure never to engage the trigger locks
anymore!

I've been looking at electric caulking guns. Boy is there every a wide
range of units available, and plenty of crappy ones. The worst (and
cheapest) is the B&D battery powered unit that takes forever to get regular
caulk going and won't pump silicone caulk at all. At least according to the
many reviews on Amazon, which I find to be accurate for the most part if you
factor out the idiots and the perpetual whiners who would find fault with a
free crate of gold ingots.

B&D means "Batteries Die" in my opinion. I just got two new B&D power
screwdrivers for Christmas gifts and already I've found a number of things
that aren't done very well compared to the Skil units they are replacing.
That's for another thread. One takes AA batteries, the other is a 2.4V
rechargeable. Both are pretty weak compared to the 3.6V Skil units. I've
got to keep powerdrivers in most of the toolkits around the house because
arthritic wrists don't do well pushing down and twisting at the same
ime. )-:

--
Bobby G.

[Steve B]

"Robert Green" <***@yah00.com> wrote

I've

Post by Robert Green
got to keep powerdrivers in most of the toolkits around the house because
arthritic wrists don't do well pushing down and twisting at the same
--
Bobby G.

I was asked what I wanted for Christmas. "ooooh, some of those t handled
nut drivers from Craftsman." I got a 12 pack of the regulars, screwdriver
handle style. Cost $20 on sale. Cost for the two pack standard/metric $80.
Took them to Sears, and the standard screwdriver handle ones are $30 for
six, either standard of metric, making that $60 for what they bought for
$20. Musta been a leader item. But yeah, I am looking at tools a lot
differently lately.

And an electric caulk gun is on the event horizon. Especially here when
it's cold.

Steve

[Larry W]

In article <***@posted.localnet>,
John Gilmer <***@localnet.com> wrote:
<...snipped...>

Post by John Gilmer
Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut.

You are correct about bolt cutters deforming the ends, but most are
not anvil-type cutters.

[Joe]

Post by Robert Green
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.
Which is a more useful tool all around?  An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?
P.S.  Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!").  I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock.  Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.
Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file.  One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor.  Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor.  Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).
One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc.  Anyone ever hear that?
--
Bobby G.

In a decade of managing my self storage business, I have used our
angle grinder (Good Old HF brand 4") a few times and bolt cutters not
at all. I don't believe the latter would do much good with a decent
hardened lock, and replacement blades are not cheap.

Joe

[Robert Green]

"Joe" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:b9359665-1a22-4e14-ad0d-

<stuff snipped>

Post by Joe
In a decade of managing my self storage business, I have used our
angle grinder (Good Old HF brand 4") a few times and bolt cutters not
at all. I don't believe the latter would do much good with a decent
hardened lock, and replacement blades are not cheap.

Another vote for the angle grinder. It's nearly unanimous. If a
self-storage guy doesn't use bolt cutters at all, I guess any logical hope I
have of justifying them just vanished. I may search around to see if anyone
sells an inexpensive hardness tester.

http://www.worldoftest.com/portablemht.htm

Inexpensive is a relative term. I'll have to stick with my spring-loaded
center punch and estimate hardness from the deformation left in the metal.
I would be fearful of breaking the cutting blades on hardened steel, too.

I don't believe the lock I Dremeled through was case hardened, but without a
hardness tester it was impossible to really tell.

--
Bobby G.