water heater leaking!

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like to
know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

Assuming the leak is not coming from some connection, the TPR valve etc,
then it's almost certainly toast. How old is it? Typical life is probably
10 - 13 years or so.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-20 17:04:41 UTC

On Tue, 20 May 2014 15:48:37 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

About $700 for the heater - labour depending on how difficult to get
at and how close the new one is to the old one in size and pipe
location.

Oren

2014-05-20 18:34:40 UTC

On Tue, 20 May 2014 15:48:37 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

My experience with a two WH's is that leaks at the bottom, um, are
failures that mean full replacement. And why do they always start
leaking in the middle of the night? On a Sunday morning, so the
neighbor knocks on the door because you have a flooded garage and
driveway. Stuff gets wet...

I did some plumbing on my units. No torch needed (flex lines) so I can
change one out in a hour. And I never buy the ones with the higher
warranty. Usually 6 years, but they don't seem to fail in only 6
years. Oh. Add a ball valve so you can turn the water off at the
heater. YMMV.

Ed Pawlowski

2014-05-20 20:41:05 UTC

On Tue, 20 May 2014 15:48:37 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

Diagnosis: it is leaking

Fix needed: replacement

Cost: a lot. Probably $700 to $900

Oren

2014-05-20 21:02:13 UTC

Post by Ed Pawlowski
Diagnosis: it is leaking
Fix needed: replacement
Cost: a lot. Probably $700 to $900

Must be me. I've never paid that much. I try to replace the WH at the
cost of the WH. DIY stuff :-\

Terry Coombs

2014-05-20 21:11:05 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 20 May 2014 15:48:37 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

Diagnosis: it is leaking
Fix needed: replacement
Cost: a lot. Probably $700 to $900

Shoulda just told him to bend over ... because that's pretty much what
plumbers do . I got lucky , got my new unit <new construction> for under 300
bucks for a 40 gal electric . Plumbed it in w/solid PVC all the way because
it was the least expensive option . When the time comes to replace it'll get
flex lines . I did put a ball valve on the inlet ... far enough upline that
it also cuts off the shower cold - they're just thru the wall from each
other .

--
Snag

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-21 00:19:46 UTC

Post by Terry Coombs

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 20 May 2014 15:48:37 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

Diagnosis: it is leaking
Fix needed: replacement
Cost: a lot. Probably $700 to $900

Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 00:40:47 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.

You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for about
$400 these days.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-21 03:15:45 UTC

On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:40:47 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for about
$400 these days.

Mabee the little cheap one. I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and
it was within a few dollars of $600 including tax. Bought it from Home
Despot because it's only about a mile away and I had to carry it home
on the rack behind my PT cruiser, so I didn't want to haul it across
town from the wholealer (price within dollars but better brand
available)

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 03:44:43 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada)
for about $400 these days.

Mabee the little cheap one. I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon
and it was within a few dollars of $600 including tax.

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/hotpoint-40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903008

Hotpoint 40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater - 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$373.00 (with tax, about $421 with tax)

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ge40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903005

General Electric
GE40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$402.00 (about $454 with tax)

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and it was within a few
dollars of $600 including tax.

Which means you paid $530 + tax.

You overpaid. The extra 3 years on the warranty wasn't worth the extra
$150 - $175 up-front that you paid.

They all come out of the same factory.

After 6 years you'd be lucky if they gave you $265 credit on a
replacement.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-21 21:40:56 UTC

On Tue, 20 May 2014 23:44:43 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by HomeGuy
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada)
for about $400 these days.

Mabee the little cheap one. I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon
and it was within a few dollars of $600 including tax.

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/hotpoint-40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903008
Hotpoint 40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater - 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$373.00 (with tax, about $421 with tax)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ge40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903005
General Electric
GE40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$402.00 (about $454 with tax)

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and it was within a few
dollars of $600 including tax.

Which means you paid $530 + tax.
You overpaid. The extra 3 years on the warranty wasn't worth the extra
$150 - $175 up-front that you paid.
They all come out of the same factory.
After 6 years you'd be lucky if they gave you $265 credit on a
replacement.

The vega and the impala came out of the same factory too, and both
were chevies. Was the extra thousand or so for the impala a rip-off?

There ARE differences between the cheapest and the best water heater
of the same brand - and I bought mine, a GE (made by rheem) 3 years
ago. It has the brass drain valve, not plastic, and 2 anodes as well
as the turbulator tube - which the cheep ones did NOT have.

My last one, a 9 yr warrany GSW, lasted well over 20 years ( I
believe it was 24), compared to the contractor installed cheepy that
lasted something like 12 years.

I NEVER buy the cheepest of anything that matters, and seldom the most
expensive. It's called buying for VALUE, not price.

Current cost is $494 at my local Home Despot, plus tax = $558
including HST here in Ontario. So I wasn't very far off saying $600.
The warranty is 50% longer, for a difference in price of $92 - or less
than 25% - and it DOES have the brass valve, double anodes, and the
turbulator tube. It is also 40,000 BTU compared to the cheap one at
36000 for faster recovery.

I'd say I got value for my $92. You don't think so? That's YOUR
problem, not mine.

Tony Hwang

2014-05-22 04:52:25 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 20 May 2014 23:44:43 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by HomeGuy
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada)
for about $400 these days.

Mabee the little cheap one. I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon
and it was within a few dollars of $600 including tax.

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/hotpoint-40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903008
Hotpoint 40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater - 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$373.00 (with tax, about $421 with tax)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ge40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903005
General Electric
GE40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$402.00 (about $454 with tax)

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and it was within a few
dollars of $600 including tax.

Which means you paid $530 + tax.
You overpaid. The extra 3 years on the warranty wasn't worth the extra
$150 - $175 up-front that you paid.
They all come out of the same factory.
After 6 years you'd be lucky if they gave you $265 credit on a
replacement.

The vega and the impala came out of the same factory too, and both
were chevies. Was the extra thousand or so for the impala a rip-off?
There ARE differences between the cheapest and the best water heater
of the same brand - and I bought mine, a GE (made by rheem) 3 years
ago. It has the brass drain valve, not plastic, and 2 anodes as well
as the turbulator tube - which the cheep ones did NOT have.
My last one, a 9 yr warrany GSW, lasted well over 20 years ( I
believe it was 24), compared to the contractor installed cheepy that
lasted something like 12 years.
I NEVER buy the cheepest of anything that matters, and seldom the most
expensive. It's called buying for VALUE, not price.
Current cost is $494 at my local Home Despot, plus tax = $558
including HST here in Ontario. So I wasn't very far off saying $600.
The warranty is 50% longer, for a difference in price of $92 - or less
than 25% - and it DOES have the brass valve, double anodes, and the
turbulator tube. It is also 40,000 BTU compared to the cheap one at
36000 for faster recovery.
I'd say I got value for my $92. You don't think so? That's YOUR
problem, not mine.

Hi,
Well, it seems he knows every thing.... His knowledge is rehashed
from Internet, sounds like.

HomeGuy

2014-05-22 13:22:41 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and it was within a few
dollars of $600 including tax.
Current cost is $494 at my local Home Despot, plus tax = $558
including HST here in Ontario. So I wasn't very far off saying
$600.
My last one, a 9 yr warranty GSW, lasted well over 20 years ( I
believe it was 24), compared to the contractor installed cheepy
that lasted something like 12 years.

So even the contractor "cheepy" outlasted the 9-year warranty that your
premium tank offers.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
There ARE differences between the cheapest and the best water heater
of the same brand - and I bought mine, a GE (made by rheem) 3 years
ago. It has the brass drain valve, not plastic, and 2 anodes as well
as the turbulator tube - which the cheep ones did NOT have.

When we're talking about warranty and water heater, we're largely
talking about the fact that it's a pressure vessel and it can fail by
leaking. Other small differences (brass or plastic drain, anodes,
turbulators) really don't factor into differences in cost when looking
at 6 yr vs 9 yr warranties.

My heater is a GE "Smart Water" model GG40S06CVG, 36000 btu, plastic
drain, brass hi-pressure vent/valve. I think it has a turbulator. There
isin't much on the web about that model. I'm sure it's 6 years old by
now.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
The vega and the impala came out of the same factory too, and
both were chevies. Was the extra thousand or so for the impala
a rip-off?
I'd say I got value for my $92. You don't think so? That's YOUR
problem, not mine.

The diff between 9 yr and 6 yr is inconsequential to me, and so is the
4K difference in BTU, so as far as I'm concerned you paid $92 extra for
a brass drain valve and an extra anode (maybe - have no clue how many I
have).

Would I pay $92 for a brass drain valve and an extra annode? Probably
not.

Would I pay an extra $1000 for dual exhaust, power windows, FM radio
with 8-track and air conditioning in the Impala vs Chevelle? Maybe.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I NEVER buy the cheepest of anything that matters, and seldom
the most expensive. It's called buying for VALUE, not price.

For a stationary object that lives it's life without interaction (or
even visibility) with people and can typically provide service for 10 to
20 years, I dare you to explain how anyone outside of the manufacturing
and service industry can possibly have any idea how to appraise the
VALUE of something like a water heater when browsing the various models
in a retail setting like Home Despot, expecially when elements of it's
construction that have a direct impact on service life (the pressure
vessel itself) is not visible without significant disassembly or
deconstruction of the item.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
The warranty is 50% longer, for a difference in price of $92 -
or less than 25%

And it's been well established that these "cheap" heaters can routinely
outlast their minimal 6-year warranty by a factor of 2 or more.

Your $92 is largely to finance the extra 3 years of waranty coverage - a
winning proposition by the manufacturer because I'm sure the statistics
would show that if a unit has lasted 6 years in the field without
failing then the odds of it continuing for an additional 3 years is
extremely high.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, it seems he knows every thing.... His knowledge is rehashed
from Internet, sounds like.

After years of consumer experience, you should have learned by now that
selling extra warranty coverage is highly profitable for the
manufacturer or retailer no matter what product we're talking about
(cars, electronics, water heaters, etc).

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-23 01:28:11 UTC

On Thu, 22 May 2014 09:22:41 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and it was within a few
dollars of $600 including tax.
Current cost is $494 at my local Home Despot, plus tax = $558
including HST here in Ontario. So I wasn't very far off saying $600.
My last one, a 9 yr warranty GSW, lasted well over 20 years ( I
believe it was 24), compared to the contractor installed cheepy
that lasted something like 12 years.

So even the contractor "cheepy" outlasted the 9-year warranty that your
premium tank offers.

I don't buy a warranty - I buy a water heater. And any GOOD product
will outlast it's warranty. And any heater with 2 anodes will cost
more than one with 1 or none - a brass valve will cost more than
plastic

Post by HomeGuy
My heater is a GE "Smart Water" model GG40S06CVG, 36000 btu, plastic
drain, brass hi-pressure vent/valve. I think it has a turbulator. There
isin't much on the web about that model. I'm sure it's 6 years old by
now.

Will it still be working and not leaking 18 years from now???
Mine very likely will, and it's already 3 years old. Like I said
before - I don't buy a warranty - I buy a quality water heater. The
quality water heater just happens to also have a longer warranty.

The diff between 9 yr and 6 yr is inconsequential to me, and so is the
4K difference in BTU, so as far as I'm concerned you paid $92 extra for
a brass drain valve and an extra anode (maybe - have no clue how many I
have).
Would I pay $92 for a brass drain valve and an extra annode? Probably
not.
Would I pay an extra $1000 for dual exhaust, power windows, FM radio
with 8-track and air conditioning in the Impala vs Chevelle? Maybe.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I NEVER buy the cheepest of anything that matters, and seldom
the most expensive. It's called buying for VALUE, not price.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
The warranty is 50% longer, for a difference in price of $92 -
or less than 25%

And it's been well established that these "cheap" heaters can routinely
outlast their minimal 6-year warranty by a factor of 2 or more.
Your $92 is largely to finance the extra 3 years of waranty coverage - a
winning proposition by the manufacturer because I'm sure the statistics
would show that if a unit has lasted 6 years in the field without
failing then the odds of it continuing for an additional 3 years is
extremely high.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Well, it seems he knows every thing.... His knowledge is rehashed
from Internet, sounds like.

And I didn't buy an "extra warranty"

You are free to buy the cheapest junk you can find. I prefer to buy
quality.

"The bad taste of low quality lasts long after the sweet taste of low
price has faded from the palate."

"It is almost always more expensive to pay too little for something
than to pay too much"

Bob F

2014-05-23 16:10:46 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and it was within a few
dollars of $600 including tax.
Current cost is $494 at my local Home Despot, plus tax = $558
including HST here in Ontario. So I wasn't very far off saying $600.
My last one, a 9 yr warranty GSW, lasted well over 20 years ( I
believe it was 24), compared to the contractor installed cheepy
that lasted something like 12 years.

So even the contractor "cheepy" outlasted the 9-year warranty that
your premium tank offers.

And his premo heater lasted twice as long.

Anodes prevent corrosion. When they're gone, the heater corrodes, then leaks.
Brass valves have higher flow than plastic, and continue actually working
longer.

Post by HomeGuy
When we're talking about warranty and water heater, we're largely
talking about the fact that it's a pressure vessel and it can fail by
leaking. Other small differences (brass or plastic drain, anodes,
turbulators) really don't factor into differences in cost when looking
at 6 yr vs 9 yr warranties.
My heater is a GE "Smart Water" model GG40S06CVG, 36000 btu, plastic
drain, brass hi-pressure vent/valve. I think it has a turbulator.
There isin't much on the web about that model. I'm sure it's 6 years
old by now.

But then again, he got twice the life by spending that $92. Sounds like a pretty
good deal to me.

Tony Hwang

2014-05-22 04:50:06 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada)
for about $400 these days.

Mabee the little cheap one. I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon
and it was within a few dollars of $600 including tax.

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/hotpoint-40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903008
Hotpoint 40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater - 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$373.00 (with tax, about $421 with tax)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/ge40-gallon-natural-gas-water-heater-6-yr-warranty-36000-btu/903005
General Electric
GE40 Gallon Natural Gas Water Heater 6 YR Warranty-36,000 BTU
$402.00 (about $454 with tax)

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
I bought a 9 yr? warranty 40 gallon and it was within a few
dollars of $600 including tax.

Which means you paid $530 + tax.
You overpaid. The extra 3 years on the warranty wasn't worth the extra
$150 - $175 up-front that you paid.
They all come out of the same factory.
After 6 years you'd be lucky if they gave you $265 credit on a
replacement.

Hmm,
My Sears 40 gal. 9 year one is going into 13th year now.

micky

2014-05-31 13:58:48 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:40:47 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for about
$400 these days.

What kind of a rack do you have behind the cruiser? Did it come with
the car?

so I didn't want to haul it across

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
town from the wholealer (price within dollars but better brand
available)

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-06-01 01:39:11 UTC

Post by micky

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 20 May 2014 20:40:47 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for about
$400 these days.

What kind of a rack do you have behind the cruiser? Did it come with
the car?
so I didn't want to haul it across

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
town from the wholealer (price within dollars but better brand
available)

Don't have the cruiser any more, but it was a carry-all rack from
Princess Auto that fit the lass 2 trailer hitch receiver. 500 lb
capacity. Cost me $99 on sale - normally $149 IIRC Just like the old
luggage racks on the back of a Model A.

Tony Hwang

2014-05-22 04:47:22 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for about
$400 these days.

Hi,
What? I was looking at them last long week end. 40 Gal. 12 yr. one was
almost 900.00.

Bob F

2014-05-23 16:12:29 UTC

Post by Tony Hwang

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Electric is about half the price of natural gas (up here anyway). So
about $600 for gas if you DIY.

Wrong.
You can get a natural-gas water heater at Home Despot (Canada) for
about $400 these days.

Hi,
What? I was looking at them last long week end. 40 Gal. 12 yr. one was
almost 900.00.

Was that a modern power vent or direct vent model?

badgolferman

2014-05-20 21:32:16 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

The above unit was made in 1997.

A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897 installed
tomorrow.

I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but it
would take at least a week. I've dealt with these people before and
would rather give them my business since they have always arrived the
same day to diagnose the problem.

Stormin Mormon

2014-05-20 22:13:29 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

The above unit was made in 1997.
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897 installed
tomorrow.
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but it
would take at least a week. I've dealt with these people before and
would rather give them my business since they have always arrived the
same day to diagnose the problem.

When mine leaked, it was less than six years.
I called, and got the warranty. The Home Depot
gave me the price I paid towards the new unit,
so I was still out a couple hundred bucks. I
mumbled a bit, and went ahead.

I think you are wise to give your money to
the people who formerly treated you well.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 00:38:30 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.

They're not that heavy you know.

And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

If you can attach a barbeque tank to a barbeque grill you can replace a
gas water heater.

I replaced exactly one water heater about 4 or 5 years ago - still
working just fine.

badgolferman

2014-05-21 01:56:40 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.
If you can attach a barbeque tank to a barbeque grill you can replace
a gas water heater.

There are welded pipes and gas fittings. I don't think I want to fool
with those since I've never used a torch before.

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 02:09:46 UTC

If you can attach a propane tank to a barbeque grill you can
replace a gas water heater.

There are welded pipes and gas fittings. I don't think I want to
fool with those since I've never used a torch before.

You would not need a torch to disconnect the gas line from your water
heater.

You shut off the gas valve in the line going to the water heater, then
you take a wrench and unscrew the coupler at the tank gas inlet.

Naturally, you'd drain the tank and close the water valves going to (and
coming from) the heater (if you have such valves) or you'd shut off the
main water supply. Then you unscrew the couplers and move the old tank
out of the way.

When I replaced my tank, I added a ball valve to both the incoming and
out-going side of the copper water lines going to the tank, to make
replacement easier the next time.

The gas input of the old tank matched exactly (in terms of height from
the floor) of the new tank, so I didn't need to rework the gas line.
Just move the new tank into position, screw the coupler back, turn on
the gas, spread a little dish-soap on the connection to see if it
bubbles, and the job is done.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-21 03:18:54 UTC

On Tue, 20 May 2014 22:09:46 -0400, HomeGuy

If you can attach a propane tank to a barbeque grill you can
replace a gas water heater.

There are welded pipes and gas fittings. I don't think I want to
fool with those since I've never used a torch before.

Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions. Most just
solder everything solid.

Post by HomeGuy
When I replaced my tank, I added a ball valve to both the incoming and
out-going side of the copper water lines going to the tank, to make
replacement easier the next time.

And I installed unions in the lines so it is easy to disconnect next
time.

Post by HomeGuy
The gas input of the old tank matched exactly (in terms of height from
the floor) of the new tank, so I didn't need to rework the gas line.
Just move the new tank into position, screw the coupler back, turn on
the gas, spread a little dish-soap on the connection to see if it
bubbles, and the job is done.

You were lucky - I had to replumb both the gas and water.

trader_4

2014-05-21 11:58:18 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Tue, 20 May 2014 22:09:46 -0400, HomeGuy

If you can attach a propane tank to a barbeque grill you can
replace a gas water heater.

There are welded pipes and gas fittings. I don't think I want to
fool with those since I've never used a torch before.

Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions. Most just
solder everything solid.

+1

And that everything matches up perfectly old to new, which it *usually*
does, but without seeing this one, who knows. And that what's there now
was done correctly and doesn't have some
obvious problem that needs to be corrected. And that there isn't some other
problem, like maybe an old water shutoff valve that should be replaced that's
soldered in, or maybe no water shutoff valve at all.

And I also don't think it's too smart to be pushing someone who
doesn't feel they have the right skills to be fooling around with
gas piping either.

Post by HomeGuy
When I replaced my tank, I added a ball valve to both the incoming and
out-going side of the copper water lines going to the tank, to make
replacement easier the next time.

And I installed unions in the lines so it is easy to disconnect next
time.

You were lucky - I had to replumb both the gas and water.

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 12:33:07 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions. Most
just solder everything solid.

-1

Show me a natural gas hot water tank made in the last decade or two that
doesn't have threaded connections for water and gas supply.

trader_4

2014-05-21 13:33:55 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions. Most
just solder everything solid.

-1
Show me a natural gas hot water tank made in the last decade or two that
doesn't have threaded connections for water and gas supply.

Just because the tank has a threaded connection doesn't say anything
about what it's connected to. Very typically it's connected to a copper
male adaptor which is then soldered to the home plumbing system
Claire told you similar. But then being you, I know it's hard.

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 14:17:05 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
Show me a natural gas hot water tank made in the last decade or
two that doesn't have threaded connections for water and gas supply.

Just because the tank has a threaded connection doesn't say anything
about what it's connected to.

What - do you expect every joint and elbow in the water distribution
lines in house is going to have threaded connections?!

What kind of bone-head are you?

The point of this discussion is that you people are claiming that it's
hard, oh so hard to connect a new hot water tank yourself because you
have to break out the torch and welder, because nobody uses threaded
connections, yet you completely miss the point that the most crucial
location (and really, the ONLY place you need or want to have threaded
connections) is on the friggin device or appliance itself. Why you
would want threaded connections or unions anywhere else makes absolutely
no sense.

And if you want a threaded joint somewhere in a water pipe where it
currently doesn't exist, you cut the friggen copper pipe and solder one
on. If you can't do that, then what the hell are you doing reading and
posting to this news group? You should be reading rec.crafts.sewing or
baking or similar.

trader_4

2014-05-21 18:10:23 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
Show me a natural gas hot water tank made in the last decade or
two that doesn't have threaded connections for water and gas supply.

Just because the tank has a threaded connection doesn't say anything
about what it's connected to.

What - do you expect every joint and elbow in the water distribution
lines in house is going to have threaded connections?!

No, but apparently you do.

Post by HomeGuy
What kind of bone-head are you?
The point of this discussion is that you people are claiming that it's
hard, oh so hard to connect a new hot water tank yourself because you
have to break out the torch and welder,

You're lying. I never said any such thing.

Post by HomeGuy
because nobody uses threaded
connections, yet you completely miss the point that the most crucial
location (and really, the ONLY place you need or want to have threaded
connections) is on the friggin device or appliance itself. Why you
would want threaded connections or unions anywhere else makes absolutely
no sense.

It makes perfect sense. The WH I have and the other ones that are
typically installed here, are like Claire told you. There is a male
copper adaptor that is screwed into the tank. Or many of them come
with dielectric nipples, so you use a female adaptor. From there copper
pipe with solder joints connects it to the system. That is a very
typical install. Capiche?

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

http://designhome.pics/how-to-drain-a-water-heater/42/drain-your-hot-water-
heater%E2%80%A6/

Got it now?

Alternatively you could have unions that allow only threaded
connections to be used. But you can't just have a threaded connection
on the tank, because without a coupling, you can't connect it.

Explain to us how you could just have one threaded connection to the water
heater and no unions, threaded connections, anywhere adjacent. Even you
seem to recognize that because you said:

"Then you unscrew the couplers and move the old tank out of the way. "

Well, if there is no coupler on the old system, ie it's soldered in,
then you can't unscrew it, idiot.

Post by HomeGuy
And if you want a threaded joint somewhere in a water pipe where it
currently doesn't exist, you cut the friggen copper pipe and solder one
on.

No shit Sherlock. But the OP said he doesn't have a torch, doesn't
know how to solder, doesn't want to work with gas, etc. Is that
so hard to comprehend? You claimed no soldering was involved just
screwed connections. Make up your mind.

Post by HomeGuy
If you can't do that, then what the hell are you doing reading and
posting to this news group? You should be reading rec.crafts.sewing or
baking or similar.

A lot of people come here looking for advice on how to proceed with
a repair project that may include using a pro. They don't need your
insults, especially when you don't know WTF you're talking about.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-22 00:38:17 UTC

On Wed, 21 May 2014 10:17:05 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by HomeGuy
Show me a natural gas hot water tank made in the last decade or
two that doesn't have threaded connections for water and gas supply.

Just because the tank has a threaded connection doesn't say anything
about what it's connected to.

Makes no sense? How in blazes do you expect to "unwind" the threaded
fitting, whether it be gas or water, without a union? Or are you one
of those Mensa types that uses compression fittings???

Post by HomeGuy
And if you want a threaded joint somewhere in a water pipe where it
currently doesn't exist, you cut the friggen copper pipe and solder one
on. If you can't do that, then what the hell are you doing reading and
posting to this news group? You should be reading rec.crafts.sewing or
baking or similar.

trader_4

2014-05-22 12:07:44 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Wed, 21 May 2014 10:17:05 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by HomeGuy
Show me a natural gas hot water tank made in the last decade or
two that doesn't have threaded connections for water and gas supply.

Just because the tank has a threaded connection doesn't say anything
about what it's connected to.

Makes no sense? How in blazes do you expect to "unwind" the threaded
fitting, whether it be gas or water, without a union? Or are you one
of those Mensa types that uses compression fittings???

You could make the first water connection by turning the WH round
and round. :) The second one, IDK. And if he's talking about using
a compression type fitting, you'd think he would have said so by now.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-21 21:50:50 UTC

On Wed, 21 May 2014 08:33:07 -0400, HomeGuy

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions. Most
just solder everything solid.

-1
Show me a natural gas hot water tank made in the last decade or two that
doesn't have threaded connections for water and gas supply.

Thread on a fitting and solder it up - for the water. Instead of
using unions like a smart guy would. As for the gas piping, lots of
guys work back from the water heater so the union is up ar ceiling
hieght - makes it a bugger to make minor changes. My union is about 8
inches from the gas valve.

rbowman

2014-05-21 13:54:59 UTC

Post by trader_4
And that everything matches up perfectly old to new, which it *usually*
does, but without seeing this one, who knows.

After shoehorning a new water heater into place, I recall a sense of
amazement that the damn thing lined up exactly with the existing plumbing. U
figured it was going to be another adventure in modern plumbing.

trader_4

2014-05-21 19:00:12 UTC

Post by rbowman

Post by trader_4
And that everything matches up perfectly old to new, which it *usually*
does, but without seeing this one, who knows.

Like Claire, I didn't assume anything. No one knows how the old
WH is connected. No one knows for example if there is an old shutoff
valve that should be replaced and that is soldered in. The old tank
could be soldered in, no unions. And for the benefit of Homelessguy,
no I don't mean the tank itself is soldered in. You typically have a
threaded copper adaptor there and then it could be solder joints from
there on.

OP said he doesn't have a torch, never soldered, etc. This is a
fairly simple job, if you have the right skills and everything lines
up, like it may. But if the OP doesn't have the skills,
isn't comfortable screwing around with gas connections, etc, then
he shouldn't be made to feel bad for using a pro.

Ed Pawlowski

2014-05-21 19:28:43 UTC

Post by trader_4
OP said he doesn't have a torch, never soldered, etc. This is a
fairly simple job, if you have the right skills and everything lines
up, like it may. But if the OP doesn't have the skills,
isn't comfortable screwing around with gas connections, etc, then
he shouldn't be made to feel bad for using a pro.

True, especially soldering. Once you know how, it is really easy. If
you've never held a torch it is very intimidating. Sharkbite fittings
though, make it possible for many people to do plumbing they never could
before.

OTOH, there are many people that should never attempt to change out a
water heater. Chances are, they have other skills that I'll never have,
such as singing and dancing. .

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 12:30:28 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
You would not need a torch to disconnect the gas line from your
water heater.
You shut off the gas valve in the line going to the water heater,
then you take a wrench and unscrew the coupler at the tank gas
inlet.

Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions.
Most just solder everything solid.

BZZZ. Wrong.

The gas inlet is threaded pipe. The water inlet and outlets are also
threaded connections. Nobody makes gas water heaters with that don't
have threaded connections.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
And I installed unions in the lines so it is easy to disconnect
next time.

You show me a water tank that has short lengths of raw copper pipes
sticking out of the top. You won't, because you can't.

Same goes for the gas inlet. NO TORCH OR WELDING REQUIRED to hook up
the gas line, like BGM (the OP) claims.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
You were lucky - I had to replumb both the gas and water.

Even if I did have to rework the iron gas line, it would be a simple
matter of screwing a few short lengths together, a 90-degree elbow or
two. But I don't see why you would have to - unless you wanted to
relocate the new water tank. It should have lined up with existing
pipes as-is.

bob haller

2014-05-21 13:28:25 UTC

around here lots of people are using the flexible brite yellow gas lines originally designed for gas dryers and gas stoves...

HomeGuy

2014-05-21 14:10:56 UTC

Post by bob haller
around here lots of people are using the flexible brite yellow gas
lines originally designed for gas dryers and gas stoves...

Yea - that's something I didn't think of.

Your water heater doesn't move around, shake or vibrate like a clothes
dryer does. The use of a short flexible link to connect a gas water
heater is a much safer application of those flex lines than any other
gas-using consumer device.

Scott Lurndal

2014-05-21 18:51:43 UTC

Post by bob haller
around here lots of people are using the flexible brite yellow gas
lines originally designed for gas dryers and gas stoves...

Yea - that's something I didn't think of.
Your water heater doesn't move around, shake or vibrate like a clothes
dryer does. The use of a short flexible link to connect a gas water
heater is a much safer application of those flex lines than any other
gas-using consumer device.

Unless you live in earthquake country (most of the continental US can
be subject to earthquakes, albeit rarely).

Bob F

2014-05-23 16:15:47 UTC

Post by bob haller
around here lots of people are using the flexible brite yellow gas
lines originally designed for gas dryers and gas stoves...

Yea - that's something I didn't think of.
Your water heater doesn't move around, shake or vibrate like a
clothes dryer does. The use of a short flexible link to connect a
gas water heater is a much safer application of those flex lines
than any other gas-using consumer device.

Unless you live in earthquake country (most of the continental US can
be subject to earthquakes, albeit rarely).

I would think that a flexible line would be safer in earthquakes.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-24 00:16:54 UTC

Post by Bob F

Post by bob haller
around here lots of people are using the flexible brite yellow gas
lines originally designed for gas dryers and gas stoves...

Yea - that's something I didn't think of.
Your water heater doesn't move around, shake or vibrate like a
clothes dryer does. The use of a short flexible link to connect a
gas water heater is a much safer application of those flex lines
than any other gas-using consumer device.

Unless you live in earthquake country (most of the continental US can
be subject to earthquakes, albeit rarely).

I would think that a flexible line would be safer in earthquakes.

A seismic valve would be a lot safer -but no help at all if the lines
outside fracture.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-22 00:31:28 UTC

Post by bob haller
around here lots of people are using the flexible brite yellow gas lines originally designed for gas dryers and gas stoves...

And around here the inspectors do NOT like the stuff. I don't like
the crap either.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-21 21:48:37 UTC

On Wed, 21 May 2014 08:30:28 -0400, HomeGuy

Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions.
Most just solder everything solid.

BZZZ. Wrong.

I was referring to the WATER connections. Sorry.

Post by HomeGuy
The gas inlet is threaded pipe. The water inlet and outlets are also
threaded connections. Nobody makes gas water heaters with that don't
have threaded connections.

But the average plumber, and most DIY installers, cheap out and
thread the connector to the water heater with pipe soldered to the
connector, then solder that pipe right to the water pipes in the
house. Saves them 2 unions at something like $10 each, and saves them
2 solder joints.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
And I installed unions in the lines so it is easy to disconnect
next time.

You show me a water tank that has short lengths of raw copper pipes
sticking out of the top. You won't, because you can't.

Didn't say they did. But they don't have unions on them either.

Post by HomeGuy
Same goes for the gas inlet. NO TORCH OR WELDING REQUIRED to hook up
the gas line, like BGM (the OP) claims.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
You were lucky - I had to replumb both the gas and water.

Different brand of water heater - and 24 years later. New one has
different gas valve and piezo ignitor, about 15 degrees of rotation
from the original in reference to the water pipe connections. About 6
inches difference in height too if memory serves me correctly - and
different diameter - so EVERYTHING had to be modified. No problem - I
had it changed in just over an hour - this wasn't my first prom!!!

trader_4

2014-05-21 22:10:02 UTC

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
On Wed, 21 May 2014 08:30:28 -0400, HomeGuy

Assuming the guy who installed it last used threaded unions.
Most just solder everything solid.

BZZZ. Wrong.

I was referring to the WATER connections. Sorry.

Everybody here, even Homelessguy knows you were talking about
the water connections.

Post by HomeGuy
The gas inlet is threaded pipe. The water inlet and outlets are also
threaded connections. Nobody makes gas water heaters with that don't
have threaded connections.

I don't do it to save the unions, the cost of the unions, etc.
I do it because it's faster, easier and less likely to leak.
Unions are just another spot that can leak and don't really offer
much. I avoid them unless they are really necessary and for the
typical WH, they aren't. To get the old one out, you just run the
pipe cutter around the pipe. Get the new one in, use a copper repair
coupling, solder it up. Quick, easy, nothing to leak.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
And I installed unions in the lines so it is easy to disconnect
next time.

You show me a water tank that has short lengths of raw copper pipes
sticking out of the top. You won't, because you can't.

Didn't say they did. But they don't have unions on them either.

Homelessguy is clueless. He somehow thinks that only he knows
that WHs have threaded fittings and that fact that they do means they
can just go in, no solder, no unions, no other special fittings.
Just screw the WH right into the rest of the plumbing.... go figure.

Post by HomeGuy
Same goes for the gas inlet. NO TORCH OR WELDING REQUIRED to hook up
the gas line, like BGM (the OP) claims.

Post by c***@snyder.on.ca
You were lucky - I had to replumb both the gas and water.

Exactly. Most times it can be a drop in where everything works out.
But sometimes it's not. It's a big leap to make assumptions without
knowing what the OP has. Or as I said before, how about if he has
a soldered in old shutoff valve that should be replaced? If you have
the skills and the tools, it's easy, but if you don't, another example of
things you can run into. And if you don't have the skills and screw
it up, flood the house, blow it up, is it worth it? Is Homelessguy
going to pay to make it right?

Stormin Mormon

2014-05-21 11:16:21 UTC

Post by badgolferman
There are welded pipes and gas fittings. I don't think I want to fool
with those since I've never used a torch before.

There is some skill to working with black iron
pipe for natural gas. If you get the same brand
and size of W.H. it might be possible to reuse
all the old black iron.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Wally W.

2014-05-21 11:33:31 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

Scott Lurndal

2014-05-21 15:11:04 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

TimR

2014-05-21 17:00:37 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Hold on, there is some truth to it.

While there is no known case of an insurance company latching on to a DIY repair to avoid paying a valid claim,

there are MANY cases of a DIY'er accidentally burning the house down while tackling a repair beyond his level of skill.

Just saying.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-22 00:47:07 UTC

Post by TimR

Post by HomeGuy
Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Hold on, there is some truth to it.
While there is no known case of an insurance company latching on to a DIY repair to avoid paying a valid claim,
there are MANY cases of a DIY'er accidentally burning the house down while tackling a repair beyond his level of skill.
Just saying.

Or using a match to find a gas leak - - -

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-22 00:43:38 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Mabee not NEVER, but it would be a very very rare occurrence..

Wally W.

2014-05-22 02:27:41 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

An example from last month:

<http://woodtv.com/2014/03/16/house-fire-after-water-heater-explodes/>
The fire broke out just after 10 p.m. Saturday
...
He said the family had replaced the water heater Saturday.

HomeGuy

2014-05-22 02:38:17 UTC

Post by Scott Lurndal
... that has never happened in real life.

The fire broke out just after 10 p.m. Saturday
...
He said the family had replaced the water heater Saturday.

Yea, but it doesn't say if they did it themselves, or had a
"professional" do it.

But there's a bigger issue with that story.

Water heaters are supposed to have safety valves.

Even if there were shut-off valves on both the inlet and outlet - and
they were both shut off,

Even if the thermostat fails and calls for continuous heat,

The over-pressure valve is supposed to kick in and prevent a pressure
buildup (and tank explosion).

Also note that it doesn't say if the tank is electric or natural gas.

trader_4

2014-05-22 12:15:23 UTC

Post by Scott Lurndal
... that has never happened in real life.

The fire broke out just after 10 p.m. Saturday
...
He said the family had replaced the water heater Saturday.

Yea, but it doesn't say if they did it themselves, or had a
"professional" do it.
But there's a bigger issue with that story.
Water heaters are supposed to have safety valves.
Even if there were shut-off valves on both the inlet and outlet - and
they were both shut off,
Even if the thermostat fails and calls for continuous heat,
The over-pressure valve is supposed to kick in and prevent a pressure
buildup (and tank explosion).
Also note that it doesn't say if the tank is electric or natural gas.

I wouldn't take that short story to mean that the tank itself
necessarily blew up. More likely it was gas and that caused the
explosion and fire.

trader_4

2014-05-22 12:13:13 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

<http://woodtv.com/2014/03/16/house-fire-after-water-heater-explodes/>
The fire broke out just after 10 p.m. Saturday
...
He said the family had replaced the water heater Saturday.

The point Claire was responding to was not that WHs can cause fires.
It was the part about the insurance company denying the claim
for a DIY install that later caused the fire.

Scott Lurndal

2014-05-23 19:59:29 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

<http://woodtv.com/2014/03/16/house-fire-after-water-heater-explodes/>
The fire broke out just after 10 p.m. Saturday

Where in the referenced article does it say:

1) that the homeowner did the replacement,
or
2) that the insurance company didn't cover the loss?

bob haller

2014-05-23 20:57:57 UTC

when people do really stupid stuff homeowners companies typically still pay but the new policy excludes the stupid move.

like a fellow who in attempting to cut down a tree brought down a 15,000 volt line, which dropped across a 120 volt line and took out over $15,000 dollars worth of tvs, vcrs and other electronic appliances....

homeowners paid the entire claim but added a complete exclusion for all tree trimming or tree work in the future.

the fellows wife figured everyone along that line was collecting broke appliances to get them replaced.

PaxPerPoten

2014-05-26 21:05:54 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and
California. If you insist on doing your own work...Go get a permit and
have it inspected to cover your ass and to keep your family healthy.
Use a little common sense for crists sake!

SteveB

2014-05-27 03:29:51 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today.
I'd like to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Capacity 40.0 gal
Natural Gas

I was going to say that the plumber will charge you $1000 installed, but
you could simply drive to Home Despot and pick up a new one and install
it yourself for $300.

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.

So I was $100 off.
They're not that heavy you know.
And easy as pie to put in.

Post by badgolferman
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but
it would take at least a week.

Real men know how to install replacement gas water heaters.

That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

It is interesting reading the Internet. "They are not that heavy."
"And easy as pie to put in." "DIY for $300." Is that the ten gallon
size? "My water heater is leaking, what do I do?"

Changing a water heater is a big deal. A 40 gallon heater with soaked
insulation is a moose even drained. Old pipes that were sweated on
instead of using nuts can be a bitch, and more than one house has burned
down with some nimrod sweating new ones on or off. Where can I get a
$300 40 gal water heater? My last one was $600, a propane model. And I
paid the pro from the gas company $350 to install it. Beautiful work.
Hoses with nuts on them. Earthquake straps. He even cut a 24" square
piece of cabinet grade plywood for it to sit on "because he didn't like
the looks of the floor under it as being weak." He stained and
varnished the wood.

Changing a water heater ain't rocket surgery, but there is quite a bit
to it, many things that can go wrong, and they can blow from the first
floor foundation through the roof on the second story. They did it on
Mythbusters. Anything that can kill you deserves respect.

Steve

Scott Lurndal

2014-05-27 15:31:17 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

trader_4

2014-05-27 15:38:55 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

I was thinking of posting that reply the other day too. It's been
claimed here many times that insurance companies deny claims all the
time because a permit wasn't pulled, the homeowner did something wrong,
etc. But I have yet to see one case cited. Not saying it never happens.
There probably are some extreme examples where they have done it, but
I don't believe it's the general case.

Scott Lurndal

2014-05-27 16:53:17 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

It can't be that difficult for folks to read their own policy, can it?

If the insurance company can prove fraud (i.e. the homeowner intentionally
burned his domicile to claim a loss), the insurance company will file a
civil suit (which will follow the criminal arson charges :-) to avoid payment
(justifiably, too).

trader_4

2014-05-27 17:27:06 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

It can't be that difficult for folks to read their own policy, can it?
If the insurance company can prove fraud (i.e. the homeowner intentionally
burned his domicile to claim a loss), the insurance company will file a
civil suit (which will follow the criminal arson charges :-) to avoid payment
(justifiably, too).

I don't see why the insurance company would file a civil suit. They
can just deny the claim and if the policy holder doesn't like it, then the policy holder can sue the insurance company to try to force them to pay.

But the claim being made here is that they won't pay not for fraud,
but because the homeowner did some repair incorrectly, without a permit,
etc. Yet they clearly pay for all the other dumb things a homeowner
does, like smoking in bed and starting a fire. So, if it's so common
it would be nice to see some examples, which should be easy to find.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-27 21:24:50 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

It can't be that difficult for folks to read their own policy, can it?
If the insurance company can prove fraud (i.e. the homeowner intentionally
burned his domicile to claim a loss), the insurance company will file a
civil suit (which will follow the criminal arson charges :-) to avoid payment
(justifiably, too).

But that is totally different from a well-meaning DIY accidentally
burning the house down while soldering his water heater pipes, or
something going wrong when he didn't have a permit or a plumbing
license.

PaxPerPoten

2014-05-29 19:52:43 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

And you sure cannot speak for California either!California will make you
tear out anything that is not built on a permit before it can be sold.
Also they will pull your occupancy permit, leaving you a vacant building.

trader_4

2014-05-29 23:30:41 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

And you sure cannot speak for California either!California will make you
tear out anything that is not built on a permit before it can be sold.

Somehow I think that's an exaggeration too. Generally that which is built
compliant with code and can be inspected, they just make you go through the
permitting/inspecting process and maybe pay some penalty. For example,
if a permit is required for a fence, but the fence is otherwise compliant,
I seriously doubt AHJs in CA are going to make you tear it out and put in an identical one, which would be a huge waste and certainly dumb.

And if it what was done has some parts that can be corrected and then have
it pass, then you get a permit, make the corrections. You generally don't
tear it out. If however you've done something that is totally non-compliant,
can't be corrected, can't be inspected, etc, then I can see them making you
tear it out.

I also find it hard to believe that CA has some process whereby they try
to find everything that might not have been done with a permit, just because
the place is being sold. Sure, if there is something obvious, I can see
them finding that as part of the CO process, but in a day when the cops
don't even have time to catch
a lot of criminals, I find it hard to believe some inspector is going to
show up and try to match what's in a house to permits going back 50 years.

bob haller

2014-05-30 02:07:35 UTC

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

You'll need to provide citations. It doesn't happen in California,
I can't speak for NY.

And you sure cannot speak for California either!California will make you
tear out anything that is not built on a permit before it can be sold.

Somehow I think that's an exaggeration too. Generally that which is built
compliant with code and can be inspected, they just make you go through the
permitting/inspecting process and maybe pay some penalty. For example,
if a permit is required for a fence, but the fence is otherwise compliant,
I seriously doubt AHJs in CA are going to make you tear it out and put in an identical one, which would be a huge waste and certainly dumb.
And if it what was done has some parts that can be corrected and then have
it pass, then you get a permit, make the corrections. You generally don't
tear it out. If however you've done something that is totally non-compliant,
can't be corrected, can't be inspected, etc, then I can see them making you
tear it out.
I also find it hard to believe that CA has some process whereby they try
to find everything that might not have been done with a permit, just because
the place is being sold. Sure, if there is something obvious, I can see
them finding that as part of the CO process, but in a day when the cops
don't even have time to catch
a lot of criminals, I find it hard to believe some inspector is going to
show up and try to match what's in a house to permits going back 50 years.

The tv show flip or flop with tarek and that gorgeous christina:) have episodes where they buy property at auction. when a unpermitted space turns up they must remove the drywall from at least one side, inspect it, bring it up to code, get it inspected by the building inspector then replace the drwall. some unpermitted stuff thats real junk gets demolished but thats the exception not the rule.

I highly recommend the show, christiana is easy on the eyes, they make big bucks, and the show is educational....

Tekkie®

2014-05-31 01:21:01 UTC

bob haller posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

Post by Wally W.
That's what insurance companies like to hear after a house burns down.

A common internet meme ...

Post by Wally W.
They just walk away ... with their check book as full as when they
arrived ... while the code official writes a citation for installing
the unit without a permit.

... that has never happened in real life.

Actually it is a common occurrence in state like New York and

What network? Usual time/day ?

--
Tekkie

Robert Green

2014-05-21 14:11:48 UTC

"badgolferman" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

Post by badgolferman
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897 installed
tomorrow.

(-: That's pretty outrageous for a flippin' water heater. I have to decide
now whether to buy one now on sale and store it or just bite the bullet and
pull the old one out *before* it starts leaking. It's about as old as
yours, but it sees fairly light use. Nine hundred dollars. You'd think it
was a self-powered polonium core unit with gold filigree.

--
Bobby G.

Vic Smith

2014-05-21 15:28:56 UTC

On Tue, 20 May 2014 21:32:16 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

The above unit was made in 1997.
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897 installed
tomorrow.
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but it
would take at least a week. I've dealt with these people before and
would rather give them my business since they have always arrived the
same day to diagnose the problem.

You did right. No hassle for you. It's within the range of a typical
plumber install. And you trust them.
Sometimes it's best to have somebody else do it.

badgolferman

2014-05-22 00:56:29 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

The above unit was made in 1997.
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but it
would take at least a week. I've dealt with these people before and
would rather give them my business since they have always arrived the
same day to diagnose the problem.

The water heater got replaced today. I watched what the guy did and am
glad I didn't attempt it myself. I'm not a klutz with tools and can
fix things, especially electronics or electrical things. I can build
computers and make them work.

After turning off the water to the house and draining the thing, the
two copper water lines at the top had to be cut off even though they
were threaded into the water heater. The gas line was a different pipe
of course, and that got unscrewed. The replacement water heater that
came was a Ruud 50 gallon tall one which was not what we had ordered.
The guy had to go get the 40 gallon version and come back later.

After taking out the old one and putting in the new one, he screwed in
some pre-made copper extensions onto the water lines of the heater
then he had to cut back some of the existing pipe to make everything
match up. More couplings came out to make the proper connections and
he then soldered them all together. Of course he had the torch, flux,
solder, and some sort of pipe dope for the gas fittings that I didn't
have. He also had to resize the gas pipe extensions and reseal all
that a couple of times because of the gas leaking. He also bled the
relief valve to let the air out of the tank -- something I would not
have known to do.

Considering all the tools I didn't have, no truck to transport these
water heaters, no curbside pickup in my town, a family that can't be
without water while I try to figure out what I've done wrong, going
back and forth to the hardware store several times, I think it was best
to pay the professional to do the job.

HomeGuy

2014-05-22 01:46:58 UTC

Post by badgolferman
Considering all the tools I didn't have, no truck to transport these
water heaters, no curbside pickup in my town, a family that can't be
without water while I try to figure out what I've done wrong, going
back and forth to the hardware store several times, I think it was
best to pay the professional to do the job.

I'm glad I learned from my dad to be electrically and mechanically
inclined. I've rebuilt Chrysler Slant/6 and 318 engines, done body work
and welding, designed and built a speech synthesizer board for my IBM PC
back in 1983 - all of that while I was still in high school.

Naturally I've done much more since then. It's hard for me to relate to
men that can't do simply plumbing I guess...

Robert Green

2014-05-22 21:59:30 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
I'm glad I learned from my dad to be electrically and mechanically
inclined.

Too bad he didn't teach you not to be a troll or a generally anti-social
jerk. Those might have been even more useful traits to learn.

Post by HomeGuy
It's hard for me to relate to men that can't do simply plumbing I guess...

It's hard for me to relate to men who needlessly insult other men and who
ironically can't even spell "simple" words. It's really kind of pathetic
that you have to keep nym-shifting to force yourself on people that clearly
want nothing to do with you. Sort of like a rapist. )-: Your father would
be so proud. NOT! Too bad, too, because at times you seem like a
reasonably intelligent person. At times.

Badgolferman made the right call for his circumstances. Someday you'll
surprise us all and make an equally correct call about something. Someday .
. . but no one should hold their breath waiting.

--
Bobby G.

trader_4

2014-05-22 12:20:43 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

The above unit was made in 1997.
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but it
would take at least a week. I've dealt with these people before and
would rather give them my business since they have always arrived the
same day to diagnose the problem.

The water heater got replaced today. I watched what the guy did and am
glad I didn't attempt it myself. I'm not a klutz with tools and can
fix things, especially electronics or electrical things. I can build
computers and make them work.
After turning off the water to the house and draining the thing, the
two copper water lines at the top had to be cut off even though they
were threaded into the water heater. The gas line was a different pipe
of course, and that got unscrewed. The replacement water heater that
came was a Ruud 50 gallon tall one which was not what we had ordered.
The guy had to go get the 40 gallon version and come back later.
After taking out the old one and putting in the new one, he screwed in
some pre-made copper extensions onto the water lines of the heater
then he had to cut back some of the existing pipe to make everything
match up. More couplings came out to make the proper connections and
he then soldered them all together. Of course he had the torch, flux,
solder, and some sort of pipe dope for the gas fittings that I didn't
have. He also had to resize the gas pipe extensions and reseal all
that a couple of times because of the gas leaking. He also bled the
relief valve to let the air out of the tank -- something I would not
have known to do.
Considering all the tools I didn't have, no truck to transport these
water heaters, no curbside pickup in my town, a family that can't be
without water while I try to figure out what I've done wrong, going
back and forth to the hardware store several times, I think it was best
to pay the professional to do the job.

Good for you and thanks for being so observant. I especially like the
part about the plumber having to redo the gas line to put it in. Exactly
what many of us here were saying, that it's not always just a straight
drop in replacement like the village idiot claims it is.

Stormin Mormon

2014-05-22 13:14:49 UTC

I also thank you for the detailed follow up. I may
print that out, and show people who want to DIY.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Tony Hwang

2014-05-22 16:11:02 UTC

Post by badgolferman
My water heater is leaking from the bottom today. There's a drop
falling every second or two so its failure is probably imminent. I
have called a plumber to come check it out this afternoon. I'd like
to know what to expect or any diagnosis you might have.
Bradford White
Model MI403S6LN12
Capacity 40.0 gal
Input 40,000 btu/hr. Natural Gas

The above unit was made in 1997.
A replacement Rheem (appropriately named) unit will cost $897
installed tomorrow.
I called a few other places and the cost was about the same but it
would take at least a week. I've dealt with these people before and
would rather give them my business since they have always arrived the
same day to diagnose the problem.

The water heater got replaced today. I watched what the guy did and am
glad I didn't attempt it myself. I'm not a klutz with tools and can
fix things, especially electronics or electrical things. I can build
computers and make them work.
After turning off the water to the house and draining the thing, the
two copper water lines at the top had to be cut off even though they
were threaded into the water heater. The gas line was a different pipe
of course, and that got unscrewed. The replacement water heater that
came was a Ruud 50 gallon tall one which was not what we had ordered.
The guy had to go get the 40 gallon version and come back later.
After taking out the old one and putting in the new one, he screwed in
some pre-made copper extensions onto the water lines of the heater
then he had to cut back some of the existing pipe to make everything
match up. More couplings came out to make the proper connections and
he then soldered them all together. Of course he had the torch, flux,
solder, and some sort of pipe dope for the gas fittings that I didn't
have. He also had to resize the gas pipe extensions and reseal all
that a couple of times because of the gas leaking. He also bled the
relief valve to let the air out of the tank -- something I would not
have known to do.
Considering all the tools I didn't have, no truck to transport these
water heaters, no curbside pickup in my town, a family that can't be
without water while I try to figure out what I've done wrong, going
back and forth to the hardware store several times, I think it was best
to pay the professional to do the job.

Hi,
I have done all this and that in my younger days and I think I earned it
to relax and take it easy, let some others do it for me(they do it to
make a living) If I do every thing myself they will starve, LOL! Now I
just make sure things are done proper. Is that village idiot da real man?

TimR

2014-05-22 20:27:14 UTC

Are sharkbite connections allowed on natural gas lines?

I ask because I have no idea and it seems a little strange, but maybe this is common practice.

Oren

2014-05-22 20:39:38 UTC

Post by TimR
Are sharkbite connections allowed on natural gas lines?

Not that I am presently aware of. SB is for Copper, PVC & PEX. Not
used in CPVC or gas lines.

Post by TimR
I ask because I have no idea and it seems a little strange, but maybe this is common practice.

Not in my neighborhood.

trader_4

2014-05-23 00:05:02 UTC

Post by Oren

Post by TimR
Are sharkbite connections allowed on natural gas lines?

Not that I am presently aware of.

Not allowed and AFAIK, I wouldn't use them on the water
for the WH either, I'd solder it in like the plumber did.
IMO they are OK for certain repairs, but I wouldn't use
them where you can easily solder it in.

SB is for Copper, PVC & PEX. Not

Post by Oren
used in CPVC or gas lines.

Post by TimR
I ask because I have no idea and it seems a little strange, but maybe this is common practice.

Not in my neighborhood.

I think he misunderstood Bob's comments:

"use the flexible gas line if needed

use sharkbites with PEX or copper..... "

He meant use the flex for the gas, sb for water.

Oren

2014-05-22 20:15:24 UTC

On Thu, 22 May 2014 00:56:29 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

Post by badgolferman
The water heater got replaced today. I watched what the guy did and am
glad I didn't attempt it myself. I'm not a klutz with tools and can
fix things, especially electronics or electrical things. I can build
computers and make them work.
After turning off the water to the house and draining the thing, the
two copper water lines at the top had to be cut off even though they
were threaded into the water heater. The gas line was a different pipe
of course, and that got unscrewed. The replacement water heater that
came was a Ruud 50 gallon tall one which was not what we had ordered.
The guy had to go get the 40 gallon version and come back later.
After taking out the old one and putting in the new one, he screwed in
some pre-made copper extensions onto the water lines of the heater
then he had to cut back some of the existing pipe to make everything
match up. More couplings came out to make the proper connections and
he then soldered them all together. Of course he had the torch, flux,
solder, and some sort of pipe dope for the gas fittings that I didn't
have. He also had to resize the gas pipe extensions and reseal all
that a couple of times because of the gas leaking. He also bled the
relief valve to let the air out of the tank -- something I would not
have known to do.
Considering all the tools I didn't have, no truck to transport these
water heaters, no curbside pickup in my town, a family that can't be
without water while I try to figure out what I've done wrong, going
back and forth to the hardware store several times, I think it was best
to pay the professional to do the job.

Glad it worked out for you. Care to mention the total cost? Plumbers
seem to make more in some areas v. other areas.

Around here a DIY Handy Dandy can ask $75 just to seat and fasten down
a toilet.

badgolferman

2014-05-23 01:48:02 UTC

Post by Oren
Glad it worked out for you. Care to mention the total cost? Plumbers
seem to make more in some areas v. other areas.

$897. That included same day diagnosis, next day service, expertise,
and prior earned trust.

I live in SE VA. Hampton Roads area.

Robert Green

2014-05-22 22:11:14 UTC

"badgolferman" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

Me too. And after building at least 30 PC's I've gotten pretty good at
fixing them and see the value of experience when someone comes to me with a
PC they're tried to fix themselves. But I don't have that same comfort
level with plumbing and gladly will pay someone who does have a lot of
experience to do something like replacing a water heater. Yes, I could
probably do it myself if my life depended on it or if I didn't have the
money to pay a plumber. But that's not my situation.

Post by badgolferman
After turning off the water to the house and draining the thing, the
two copper water lines at the top had to be cut off even though they
were threaded into the water heater. The gas line was a different pipe
of course, and that got unscrewed. The replacement water heater that
came was a Ruud 50 gallon tall one which was not what we had ordered.
The guy had to go get the 40 gallon version and come back later.

You've described why I often buy two of something I consider a critical unit
like the DVR that's at the heart of my TV setup. When it failed, I swapped
the backup unit in in less than 5 minutes. If I had to buy a new one, it
would have involved rewiring, reprogramming all the remotes around the house
that control it via an IR repeater network, etc. It's something I learned
from keeping critical servers on line. You can't have enough identical
spares if you want to minimize downtime and all the futzing that comes from
shoehorning in an "almost identical" replacement.

Post by badgolferman
After taking out the old one and putting in the new one, he screwed in
some pre-made copper extensions onto the water lines of the heater
then he had to cut back some of the existing pipe to make everything
match up. More couplings came out to make the proper connections and
he then soldered them all together. Of course he had the torch, flux,
solder, and some sort of pipe dope for the gas fittings that I didn't
have. He also had to resize the gas pipe extensions and reseal all
that a couple of times because of the gas leaking. He also bled the
relief valve to let the air out of the tank -- something I would not
have known to do.

It sounds like by watching him work, you know you've gotten your money's
worth. Hell, at my age schlepping a 40G water heater around isn't really a
good idea. Might end up costing way more than $1,000 in medical bills and

Yep. Hot water is a mission-critical function. Despite the noise from our
favorite resident troll, I think it's clear you made the right call.

--
Bobby G.

HomeGuy

2014-05-23 00:35:14 UTC

Post by Robert Green
It sounds like by watching him work, you know you've gotten your
money's worth. Hell, at my age schlepping a 40G water heater
around isn't really a good idea.

Like I said earlier, an empty water heater is remarkably light. Me and
the wife carried ours from our pickup into the house and down into the
basement. Did the reverse for the old tank.

Post by Robert Green
Might end up costing way more than $1,000 in medical bills and lost

Enjoy your Obama-Care, with the $4000 deductible.

Post by Robert Green

Post by badgolferman
Considering all the tools I didn't have,

Makes me wonder why some people read and post to this newsgroup.

Why aren't you instead reading rec.cooking or rec.sewing or
rec.dollhouses?

When you get your propane barbeque tanks refilled and bring them back
home, do you call a certified pipefitter to connect it back to your
barbeque?

Post by Robert Green
Yep. Hot water is a mission-critical function.

No, the coffee maker is a mission-critical function. Flushing the
toilet is a mission critical function. There are lots of things higher
on the totem pole in a home than having hot water.

Post by Robert Green
Despite the noise from our favorite resident troll, I think it's
clear you made the right call.

There's no substitute for being a man and having confidence I guess.

badgolferman

2014-05-23 01:43:59 UTC

Post by HomeGuy
There's no substitute for being a man and having confidence I guess.

I fail to understand your hostility and demeaning attitude toward those
who don't have the same skills as you do. Some people can do certain
things and some people can do other things. You will someday realize
how powerless you are and find yourself in need of assistance from
others. This is a good time to learn how to be humble so there will be
people willing to help you.

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-23 02:10:20 UTC

On Fri, 23 May 2014 01:43:59 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"

Post by HomeGuy
There's no substitute for being a man and having confidence I guess.

And if I happen to be very busy with jobs that I do better than
plumbing, I can pay a plumber to do the job and still come out ahead.

Red Green

2014-05-20 23:10:10 UTC

Metamorphosis - it's toast.

...keeping in mind the mention of

Post by badgolferman
Assuming the leak is not coming from some connection, the TPR valve etc,

h***@sbcglobal.net

2014-05-21 02:42:51 UTC

You want to fill the tank with water before turning on the heat.

Stormin Mormon

2014-05-21 11:17:15 UTC

Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
You want to fill the tank with
water before turning on the heat.

That should have been one of my Dad's
wise expressions.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

trader_4

2014-05-21 12:01:37 UTC

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
You want to fill the tank with
water before turning on the heat.

That should have been one of my Dad's
wise expressions.
--

I'd also recommend putting one of those plastic water catch pans
under the new one, if the old didn't have one. It depends on where
it's located as to how much benefit it is. But even in a basement,
it can be useful. They have an outlet that you can connect a piece of
hose to so that water goes where you want it, ie French drain, sump pump
pit, etc, instead of wherever it would wind up if it leaks on the floor.

Fat-Dumb and Happy

2014-05-21 17:47:31 UTC

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
You want to fill the tank with
water before turning on the heat.

That should have been one of my Dad's
wise expressions.
--

Just for the hell of it,
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/whh/pages/water-heater-museum-home.html

c***@snyder.on.ca

2014-05-22 00:52:24 UTC

On Wed, 21 May 2014 12:47:31 -0500, Fat-Dumb and Happy

Post by Fat-Dumb and Happy

Post by Stormin Mormon

Post by h***@sbcglobal.net
You want to fill the tank with
water before turning on the heat.

That should have been one of my Dad's
wise expressions.
--

Just for the hell of it,
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/whh/pages/water-heater-museum-home.html

Did you get to the pictures??? I didn't find them.

bob haller

2014-05-21 18:28:01 UTC

use the flexible gas line if needed

use sharkbites with PEX or copper.....

No sweating of pipes necessary

bob haller

2014-05-31 12:18:50 UTC